3 ms·

So I'm curious are Chinese hackers allowed past the great firewall and allowed to roam freely on the internet? I wonder how that sort of freedom is managed, lik

So I'm curious are Chinese hackers allowed past the great firewall and allowed to roam freely on the internet? I wonder how that sort of freedom is managed, like I'm imagining a hacker stumbling across a hard drive full of Tianamen Square coverage or Uighur documentation or whatever the suppressed story is. Is that class of individuals given free license online and basically trusted not to go snooping around or cover their eyes when they find stuff they shouldn't be seeing?

Renaud 5y ago
The great firewall is not an impenetrable fortress. People in China routinely access the external world and most websites are not blocked at all until they are found to contain 'anti-nationalist' material. Even then, people use a variety of VPNs to access sites not otherwise accessible. As to your second point, people of all countries are easily blinded by their own nationalistic rethoric. I mean how many in the US had access to the same information as Snowden and said nothing? People acting in these circles are vetted for their patriotism and checks are in place to make sure they don't deviate. People who are into these secret clubs -whether they are government agencies, hacking groups, terrorists, etc- tend to not want to lose their privileges, because it gives them power an insight- and also because they know the consequences to themselves -and possibly on their families- of violating their masters' trust. It takes real courage to give that up and the outcome is probably often pretty bleak.
magicsmoke 5y ago
It seems like what's implied behind this question is that any Chinese hacker that's exposed to uncensored material would immediately turn against their evil regime, so the regime must constantly be on guard against ideological infiltration. I think that's a really simplistic view of human motivations and a reflection of how China is viewed in the West onto how any "reasonable" Chinese hacker must also view China. When in fact, how this hacker might view about the situation could range anywhere from feeling that the government was justified in their actions from a realpolitik point of view to an acceptance that it's just one of those complicated problems in Chinese society that can't be solved overnight, like systemic racism or economic inequality in the US. I doubt Americans live every minute of their lives thinking of all the minor tragedies that occur in their country at any given moment, and is motivated by them to overthrow the American system. Rather, it's more of a shrug and carry on while trying to do a little better within the system they have.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  Living in China and talking with many around me (not a representative sample since they all speak english), I agree: it's quite easy to see all this drama as an expression of jaleousy or ignorance from hypocritical westerners than an enlightened analysis of their condition. If for us the solution is to have the crime rate of the USA, the inefficiencies of Europe, or the slow death of Japan, it's hard for them not to prefer the glorious albeit maybe artificial paradise promised by their rulers.
  - Bayart 5y ago
    The problem is that hardly anyone knows what's the actual crime rate in China, how efficient it actually is or how the demographic situation is really unfolding. Information is intentionally opaque to the point nobody, whether in China or not, is able to make an informed opinion.
- jxramos 5y ago
  I'm thinking mostly of the comedy of the awkward situation it could potentially put someone in, not so much the hacker but the manager or master as another poster mentioned who would have to explain why his employees have a photo of tank man on their screen as their superiors walk in. "But I was just hacking, it's not me it's them?!?" But realistically at most it would plant seeds of doubt like all the CIA craziness we've seen posted to HN of late. There's some pretty disturbing stuff with respect to that such that it made me appreciate some more of the anti government sentiments about the evil government and dirty affairs we've created in other countries.
xster 5y ago
Before this fan fiction gets too elaborate, it's probably easier for anyone in China to just look at CNN http://www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=cnn.com http://www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=cnn.com than spending the time to become a hacker.
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  It's interesting that they block Hacker News and not CNN. I take it that any social network is by default blocked?

Renaud 5y ago

The great firewall is not an impenetrable fortress. People in China routinely access the external world and most websites are not blocked at all until they are found to contain 'anti-nationalist' material. Even then, people use a variety of VPNs to access sites not otherwise accessible. As to your second point, people of all countries are easily blinded by their own nationalistic rethoric. I mean how many in the US had access to the same information as Snowden and said nothing? People acting in these circles are vetted for their patriotism and checks are in place to make sure they don't deviate. People who are into these secret clubs -whether they are government agencies, hacking groups, terrorists, etc- tend to not want to lose their privileges, because it gives them power an insight- and also because they know the consequences to themselves -and possibly on their families- of violating their masters' trust. It takes real courage to give that up and the outcome is probably often pretty bleak.

magicsmoke 5y ago

It seems like what's implied behind this question is that any Chinese hacker that's exposed to uncensored material would immediately turn against their evil regime, so the regime must constantly be on guard against ideological infiltration. I think that's a really simplistic view of human motivations and a reflection of how China is viewed in the West onto how any "reasonable" Chinese hacker must also view China. When in fact, how this hacker might view about the situation could range anywhere from feeling that the government was justified in their actions from a realpolitik point of view to an acceptance that it's just one of those complicated problems in Chinese society that can't be solved overnight, like systemic racism or economic inequality in the US. I doubt Americans live every minute of their lives thinking of all the minor tragedies that occur in their country at any given moment, and is motivated by them to overthrow the American system. Rather, it's more of a shrug and carry on while trying to do a little better within the system they have.

xwolfi 5y ago
Living in China and talking with many around me (not a representative sample since they all speak english), I agree: it's quite easy to see all this drama as an expression of jaleousy or ignorance from hypocritical westerners than an enlightened analysis of their condition. If for us the solution is to have the crime rate of the USA, the inefficiencies of Europe, or the slow death of Japan, it's hard for them not to prefer the glorious albeit maybe artificial paradise promised by their rulers.
- Bayart 5y ago
  The problem is that hardly anyone knows what's the actual crime rate in China, how efficient it actually is or how the demographic situation is really unfolding. Information is intentionally opaque to the point nobody, whether in China or not, is able to make an informed opinion.
jxramos 5y ago
I'm thinking mostly of the comedy of the awkward situation it could potentially put someone in, not so much the hacker but the manager or master as another poster mentioned who would have to explain why his employees have a photo of tank man on their screen as their superiors walk in. "But I was just hacking, it's not me it's them?!?" But realistically at most it would plant seeds of doubt like all the CIA craziness we've seen posted to HN of late. There's some pretty disturbing stuff with respect to that such that it made me appreciate some more of the anti government sentiments about the evil government and dirty affairs we've created in other countries.

xster 5y ago

Before this fan fiction gets too elaborate, it's probably easier for anyone in China to just look at CNN http://www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=cnn.com http://www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=cnn.com than spending the time to become a hacker.

3pt14159 5y ago
It's interesting that they block Hacker News and not CNN. I take it that any social network is by default blocked?