4 ms·

As a victim/survivor/whatever of several violent crimes, I would rather it never happened. Whatever broken system we had in place that created people so despera

As a victim/survivor/whatever of several violent crimes, I would rather it never happened. Whatever broken system we had in place that created people so desperate that they had to harm people appears the problem. If the people aren't causing problems for anyone else, more power to them. The only thing society owes me is that someone else should not have to deal with the shit I had to go through.

bradleyjg 5y ago
All murderers, for example, are “desperate” people that “had to” kill? Nothing is ever anyone’s fault, just broken systems all the way down?
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  Let me spin your question back at you: Do you not acknowledge that yes, many (not all) crimes are committed as a result of desperation, addiction, or otherwise poor community conditions that could be prevented by better social services?
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    Determinism has some thorny philosophical issues. Couldn’t we just as easily say that right wing voters that don’t want to provide better social services are that way because of their upbringing and societal conditions? Soon we have nothing left to talk about because everything is inevitable.
    - unethical_ban 5y ago
      You didn't answer the question, and I don't think it's that thorny. I'll get back to your question after you provide a direct response to mine. Edit, in case you got upset: Philosophy is important and well and good, but it is a game too often played by online trolls to ask questions, and never answer those posed to them. So when I ask a direct question and you throw back a counter, and then change the subject to the philosophy, I have to wonder if you really had any interest in debate in the first place.
      - bradleyjg 5y ago
        I tend to think that in most cases, in the US, there’s a mix of poor character / ethics / whatever-you-want-to-call-it and circumstances that lead to people committing crimes. I think it’s rare that it’s entirely society’s fault (accepting that framing for the sake of the discussion).
      - bradleyjg 5y ago
        > I'll get back to your question after you provide a direct response to mine.
- seb1204 5y ago
  Watching this show about the FBI profilers on Netflix qualifies me to respond here :-) In a sense even the serial killer can be seen/understood as a victim of the society. What made him into what he is is the unwanted part of the society. I still see the crime as his doing/fault though.

bradleyjg 5y ago

All murderers, for example, are “desperate” people that “had to” kill? Nothing is ever anyone’s fault, just broken systems all the way down?

unethical_ban 5y ago
Let me spin your question back at you: Do you not acknowledge that yes, many (not all) crimes are committed as a result of desperation, addiction, or otherwise poor community conditions that could be prevented by better social services?
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  Determinism has some thorny philosophical issues. Couldn’t we just as easily say that right wing voters that don’t want to provide better social services are that way because of their upbringing and societal conditions? Soon we have nothing left to talk about because everything is inevitable.
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    You didn't answer the question, and I don't think it's that thorny. I'll get back to your question after you provide a direct response to mine. Edit, in case you got upset: Philosophy is important and well and good, but it is a game too often played by online trolls to ask questions, and never answer those posed to them. So when I ask a direct question and you throw back a counter, and then change the subject to the philosophy, I have to wonder if you really had any interest in debate in the first place.
    - bradleyjg 5y ago
      I tend to think that in most cases, in the US, there’s a mix of poor character / ethics / whatever-you-want-to-call-it and circumstances that lead to people committing crimes. I think it’s rare that it’s entirely society’s fault (accepting that framing for the sake of the discussion).
    - bradleyjg 5y ago
      > I'll get back to your question after you provide a direct response to mine.
seb1204 5y ago
Watching this show about the FBI profilers on Netflix qualifies me to respond here :-) In a sense even the serial killer can be seen/understood as a victim of the society. What made him into what he is is the unwanted part of the society. I still see the crime as his doing/fault though.