3 ms·

How so? It only affects the end consumer. It’s deductible for businesses.

pvaldes 5y ago
To start, YOU are the end consumer. Lets imagine that you wake up one day, and all is 21% more expensive, would be happy with it?
- pvaldes 5y ago
  And your startup is now a company, but also a tax collecting office. You are forced also to be a tax collector, collect money from your clients, keep it safe and pay it to the mobs... to the government before 100 days, either you have it or not. Your customers, of course, hate it. Will hate YOU for that. And will try to press you to forget VAT all the time. This system introduces a incredible amount of anger and friction in the process of selling a product, that must to be as straightforward and easy as possible. And is a bless to the bigco competitors. That leads us to the parallel VAT-less market that will be created in no time.
  - rad_gruchalski 5y ago
    > You are forced also to be a tax collector, collect money from your clients, keep it safe and pay it to the mobs... to the government before 100 days, either you have it or not. Well, you raise an invoice with VAT on it, you get paid, you put the VAT money on the side because it is NOT YOUR money and you pay the VAT to the financial system. Your invoice goes into accounting only when it's paid. Can you explain what's wrong with that? > Your customers, of course, hate it. Will hate YOU for that. 160 countries around the world have VAT / GST. Haven't seen widespread "HATE" anywhere.
    - pvaldes 5y ago
      > Haven't seen widespread "HATE" anywhere. I'm really happy for you. Could you repeat that to my customers, please?
      - rad_gruchalski 5y ago
        That’s fine but how could I possibly do that without being introduced?
- rad_gruchalski 5y ago
  I am, my company isn't. What's your point? How would things get 21% more expensive from one day to another? The VAT system already functions and is already calculated into the cost of living. An example: selling a SaaS subscription in the EU, the price would be 100%-19% VAT + VAT, selling the same subscription to the US, the price would be 100%. Consumer in the EU does not lose anything. Business neither because the VAT the business pays back to the VAT system can be claimed back on VAT paid by the same business on other services. The VAT thus motivates businesses to spend money on goods and services. What is it used for? "VAT essentially compensates for the shared service and infrastructure provided in a certain locality by a state and funded by its taxpayers that were used in the provision of that product or service." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    > How would things get 21% more expensive from one day to another? New Laws. Is more expensive because everybody is paying a 21% more in taxes. So either the customer pays more, or the seller accepts to take a cut in their benefits to keep the price in a strategic value (below the product of his competitors) To compensate it and survive, the startup needs now to find a way to produce the 'same' product 21% cheaper. For example, in China. That invariably leads to your product being cloned for somebody and fake products invading your market.
    - rad_gruchalski 5y ago
      > New Laws. How did we end up on new laws when we started about VAT explicitly?
      - pvaldes 5y ago
        Maybe you are not aware, but VAT has been raised many times in the last years.
        rad_gruchalski 5y ago

To start, YOU are the end consumer. Lets imagine that you wake up one day, and all is 21% more expensive, would be happy with it?

pvaldes 5y ago
And your startup is now a company, but also a tax collecting office. You are forced also to be a tax collector, collect money from your clients, keep it safe and pay it to the mobs... to the government before 100 days, either you have it or not. Your customers, of course, hate it. Will hate YOU for that. And will try to press you to forget VAT all the time. This system introduces a incredible amount of anger and friction in the process of selling a product, that must to be as straightforward and easy as possible. And is a bless to the bigco competitors. That leads us to the parallel VAT-less market that will be created in no time.
- rad_gruchalski 5y ago
  > You are forced also to be a tax collector, collect money from your clients, keep it safe and pay it to the mobs... to the government before 100 days, either you have it or not. Well, you raise an invoice with VAT on it, you get paid, you put the VAT money on the side because it is NOT YOUR money and you pay the VAT to the financial system. Your invoice goes into accounting only when it's paid. Can you explain what's wrong with that? > Your customers, of course, hate it. Will hate YOU for that. 160 countries around the world have VAT / GST. Haven't seen widespread "HATE" anywhere.
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    > Haven't seen widespread "HATE" anywhere. I'm really happy for you. Could you repeat that to my customers, please?
    - rad_gruchalski 5y ago
      That’s fine but how could I possibly do that without being introduced?
rad_gruchalski 5y ago
I am, my company isn't. What's your point? How would things get 21% more expensive from one day to another? The VAT system already functions and is already calculated into the cost of living. An example: selling a SaaS subscription in the EU, the price would be 100%-19% VAT + VAT, selling the same subscription to the US, the price would be 100%. Consumer in the EU does not lose anything. Business neither because the VAT the business pays back to the VAT system can be claimed back on VAT paid by the same business on other services. The VAT thus motivates businesses to spend money on goods and services. What is it used for? "VAT essentially compensates for the shared service and infrastructure provided in a certain locality by a state and funded by its taxpayers that were used in the provision of that product or service." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax
- pvaldes 5y ago
  > How would things get 21% more expensive from one day to another? New Laws. Is more expensive because everybody is paying a 21% more in taxes. So either the customer pays more, or the seller accepts to take a cut in their benefits to keep the price in a strategic value (below the product of his competitors) To compensate it and survive, the startup needs now to find a way to produce the 'same' product 21% cheaper. For example, in China. That invariably leads to your product being cloned for somebody and fake products invading your market.
  - rad_gruchalski 5y ago
    > New Laws. How did we end up on new laws when we started about VAT explicitly?
    - pvaldes 5y ago
      Maybe you are not aware, but VAT has been raised many times in the last years.
      - rad_gruchalski 5y ago