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Is there a popular religion that is not completely centered around humans? I find these whole "happiness" and "charity" concepts fake and disturbing. As in goo

Is there a popular religion that is not completely centered around humans? I find these whole "happiness" and "charity" concepts fake and disturbing. As in good deeds = making other humans happy or whatever. Yah, I am not big on religion.

pmoriarty 5y ago
"Is there a popular religion that is not completely centered around humans?" I don't understand what you mean by "completely centered around humans". Judaism is centered around worship of God, who is not human... but like every other human religion the worshipers themselves are human, so I guess in the sense that it has human worshipers it is "centered around humans".. is that what you mean? "I find these whole "happiness" and "charity" concepts fake and disturbing" Why do you think they're fake? "As in good deeds = making other humans happy or whatever" What's the problem with that?
- beebeepka 5y ago
  Don't know about Judaism. Best I could manage was about an hour of the old testament. Had to give up after the 1000th WTF moment. What really pissed me was the insistence that god > hebrews > other humans> animals. What utter junk
  - notsureaboutpg 5y ago
    Do you think that all humans and animals are equal? It's obviously untrue by any objective measurement. Even human beings are not equal by any objective measurement. Only through a religious lens is there a concept of equality between human beings. That either through their suffering or service to others do they gain over others who have more status, power, etc. than them. Without that balancing factor, the world is bleak and stratified.
  - Juliate 5y ago
    As for anything that old, there's a huge lot of context (cultural, religious, geographic, contemporary, societal) that informs what was written and all the understandings around it (be it religious or cultural). You're totally in your right to be skeptic. Yet, one hour of your time reading a part of it without introduction or reference may not be how you will gain anything from it (whatever the gain would be, confirmation/deepening/deconstruction of your skepticism).
w0de0 5y ago
Man is made is god's image, or vice-versa, in either case religion is always about humans and their deeds. You've rather missed the point if you seek a religion not focused on humanity, because in every case religion is an explanation for the persistent mystery of the purpose of our own self-knowledge. If a cosmology does not present a teleological explanation for the existence (and often, attendant suffering) of its followers, it is more a pseudo-science than a religion. Arguably Scientology strays the furthest from "human centered," with an eschatology apparently centered around humans being mere vessels for other beings. But still, this is an apologia for the existence of humanity.
- beebeepka 5y ago
  Sure, it's about humans. What bugs me is the insistence that nothing else matters which is wrong by default. Does the sun orbit our planet?
  - tharkun__ 5y ago
    I've been thinking for a while now about this. Take negotiation or haggling over price. You know you want to pay a max of X, so you offer X-Y and on the other end the same happens in reverse until both sides hopefully reach a Z somewhere close enough to their own X that they agree to make the transaction. You alway ask for something extra in a negotiation that you can give up on or bargain with that doesn't really hurt. If I apply this to population control via religion, your teachings should be about the absolute best behaviours. You burn in hell if you don't behave like X etc. Makes total sense to me as in reality people as a whole will deviate to a certain extent. But by insisting on X, on average everyone arrives at Z. Of course this makes no sense to you or me or other atheists that are perfectly capable of being decent human beings without all the religious mumbo jumbo. But if you were charged with keeping a large populous of all sorts of different people under control, how would you do that? "Reasoning" with them is likely not to yield the kind of results you want, especially if we are talking living conditions of hundreds to thousands of years ago. The trick is to be the high priest, not the sacrifice ;)
    - 5y ago
h0l0cube 5y ago
> I find these whole "happiness" and "charity" concepts fake and disturbing. Taking the cynical angle, charity can come from a place of self-interest if it makes you feel good. In my experience, I've met many people with Buddhist backgrounds that are giving by default. Most of them have come from countries where this way of being is deeply rooted in the culture, and therefore their charity is often reciprocated (or at least not punished), and the behaviour is rewarded. On the flip side, there are some Buddhist monks in recent times who've incited populist violence against minorities, so the picture is complicated. On the whole, though, it's very different to the individualist default of much of the Anglosphere.
rvn1045 5y ago
I understood religion better after practicing and studying meditation. The backbone of all religions is based on the personal mystical experiences of individuals like Jesus, Mohammad, Budha and many others. They experienced some kind of personal transformation and feeling of being connected with everything around them. A lot of religious and spiritual practices are based on developing that feeling within yourself through various trainings. Monks for example are deep in this territory and may practice meditation for hours and hours a day. When you do that you become very sensitive to changes within yourself and start to see how various stimuli might effect you. They might experience that being charitable and loving etc unlocks deep levels of joy and blissfusness but if they do the opposite they might face a decrease in such feelings etc So it’s not so much you have to be charitable for some moral reason but more you have to be charitable if you want to experience certain feelings within yourself that are much more pleasant than what you may experience if you do the opposite.
- yumraj 5y ago
  > The backbone of all religions is based on the personal mystical experiences of individuals like Jesus, Mohammad, Budha and many others. Many, not all. Basically newer religions that were founded by an individual such at the ones you mentioned. Ancient, but still practiced, religions, such as Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Native American religions and so on have a different, more nuanced, origin.
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    Zoroastrianism was founded by an individual: Zoroaster. Traditionally it has been viewed as the product of an individual (drawing on some elements of the prevailing religion) just like Christianity, Manichaeism or Buddhism, though details of the founder's biography are now lost to time.
    - yumraj 5y ago
      Thank you for correcting me about Zoroastrianism.
kappi 5y ago
Differences between religions and their philosophies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQv6kqGsR0E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQv6kqGsR0E
mc32 5y ago
Maybe religions imagined by animals? Or do you expect human religions to try to appeal to animals? I'm not religious, so I can't speak from experience; however, I think they speak about people having dominion over nature --dominion here, in that context, meaning stewardship, rather than selfish control. So from that Pov they consider nature.
ssvss 5y ago
Advaita (Non-dualism)- It says the consideration of each human being as a seperate individual self is an illusion, and that all/everything is one. There are different sects which teach/practise Advaita. Among the popular one, one sect advocates the studying of different Upanishads to internalize this non-dualism and realize this truth. The other one (which I follow) advocates meditation on the "I/Self/Presence/Awareness" to realize truth. Ramana Maharishi is the recent proponent of the I/Self path.
wombatmobile 5y ago
> Is there a popular religion that is not completely centered around humans? When a Martian delegation visited Earth in the 1950's, they studied the dominant lifeforms in order to understand the hierarchical organisation of any potential Earth defences. After several weeks of undercover observation, the chief Martian explorer reported that life on Earth had at its apex the most powerful and revered predator which had subjugated all other lifeforms on all 5 continents. Whilst the Martian term for this predator is unpronounceable, NASA cryptographers determined that the organism identified by the explorers was the automobile.
nine_k 5y ago
IDK about currently popular religions, but the old Aztec religion included deities who cared little about human business, except one who was an unpleasant trickster, like Loki. It's still pretty strange to expect a human coping / structuring mechanism like religion to not put humans on a prominent (though usually not very respectable) place.
naruvimama 5y ago
In Hinduism out of the 10 avatars, the first 3 are fish, turtle and boar. They seem to represent evolution of lifeforms as well as human society. We have reached 9, the 10th is a horse faced being, it is either alien, human evolution or a new species that would replace man. Any animals, plants, trees and rocks are also considered divine and have their own festivals. Nepali Kukur tihar is a festival for dogs.
- unmole 5y ago
  > In Hinduism out of the 10 avatars, the first 3 are fish, turtle and boar. Bhagavatam contains 22 avatars of Vishnu. The arbitrary selection of 10 which sometimes include Buddha is a later day invention. > They seem to represent evolution of lifeforms as well as human society. This is Theospohical interpretation with no basis in actual scripture. It's like using the Book of Mormon to interpret the Old Testament. > the 10th is a horse faced being Kalki is said to ride a horse, not have a horse's head. The horse headed avatar is Hayagriva who oddly enough isn't included in dasavatara.
  - naruvimama 5y ago
    Divinity pervades everything and it can manifest itself in any form. The Murthis or deities in every temple however small are such manifestation. Major manifestations are avatars. I took this from this video based on a carving that is more than 2000 years old. https://youtu.be/cZYiH5snMYU https://youtu.be/cZYiH5snMYU

pmoriarty 5y ago

"Is there a popular religion that is not completely centered around humans?" I don't understand what you mean by "completely centered around humans". Judaism is centered around worship of God, who is not human... but like every other human religion the worshipers themselves are human, so I guess in the sense that it has human worshipers it is "centered around humans".. is that what you mean? "I find these whole "happiness" and "charity" concepts fake and disturbing" Why do you think they're fake? "As in good deeds = making other humans happy or whatever" What's the problem with that?

beebeepka 5y ago
Don't know about Judaism. Best I could manage was about an hour of the old testament. Had to give up after the 1000th WTF moment. What really pissed me was the insistence that god > hebrews > other humans> animals. What utter junk
- notsureaboutpg 5y ago
  Do you think that all humans and animals are equal? It's obviously untrue by any objective measurement. Even human beings are not equal by any objective measurement. Only through a religious lens is there a concept of equality between human beings. That either through their suffering or service to others do they gain over others who have more status, power, etc. than them. Without that balancing factor, the world is bleak and stratified.
- Juliate 5y ago
  As for anything that old, there's a huge lot of context (cultural, religious, geographic, contemporary, societal) that informs what was written and all the understandings around it (be it religious or cultural). You're totally in your right to be skeptic. Yet, one hour of your time reading a part of it without introduction or reference may not be how you will gain anything from it (whatever the gain would be, confirmation/deepening/deconstruction of your skepticism).

w0de0 5y ago

Man is made is god's image, or vice-versa, in either case religion is always about humans and their deeds. You've rather missed the point if you seek a religion not focused on humanity, because in every case religion is an explanation for the persistent mystery of the purpose of our own self-knowledge. If a cosmology does not present a teleological explanation for the existence (and often, attendant suffering) of its followers, it is more a pseudo-science than a religion. Arguably Scientology strays the furthest from "human centered," with an eschatology apparently centered around humans being mere vessels for other beings. But still, this is an apologia for the existence of humanity.

beebeepka 5y ago
Sure, it's about humans. What bugs me is the insistence that nothing else matters which is wrong by default. Does the sun orbit our planet?
- tharkun__ 5y ago
  I've been thinking for a while now about this. Take negotiation or haggling over price. You know you want to pay a max of X, so you offer X-Y and on the other end the same happens in reverse until both sides hopefully reach a Z somewhere close enough to their own X that they agree to make the transaction. You alway ask for something extra in a negotiation that you can give up on or bargain with that doesn't really hurt. If I apply this to population control via religion, your teachings should be about the absolute best behaviours. You burn in hell if you don't behave like X etc. Makes total sense to me as in reality people as a whole will deviate to a certain extent. But by insisting on X, on average everyone arrives at Z. Of course this makes no sense to you or me or other atheists that are perfectly capable of being decent human beings without all the religious mumbo jumbo. But if you were charged with keeping a large populous of all sorts of different people under control, how would you do that? "Reasoning" with them is likely not to yield the kind of results you want, especially if we are talking living conditions of hundreds to thousands of years ago. The trick is to be the high priest, not the sacrifice ;)
  - 5y ago

h0l0cube 5y ago

> I find these whole "happiness" and "charity" concepts fake and disturbing. Taking the cynical angle, charity can come from a place of self-interest if it makes you feel good. In my experience, I've met many people with Buddhist backgrounds that are giving by default. Most of them have come from countries where this way of being is deeply rooted in the culture, and therefore their charity is often reciprocated (or at least not punished), and the behaviour is rewarded. On the flip side, there are some Buddhist monks in recent times who've incited populist violence against minorities, so the picture is complicated. On the whole, though, it's very different to the individualist default of much of the Anglosphere.

rvn1045 5y ago

I understood religion better after practicing and studying meditation. The backbone of all religions is based on the personal mystical experiences of individuals like Jesus, Mohammad, Budha and many others. They experienced some kind of personal transformation and feeling of being connected with everything around them. A lot of religious and spiritual practices are based on developing that feeling within yourself through various trainings. Monks for example are deep in this territory and may practice meditation for hours and hours a day. When you do that you become very sensitive to changes within yourself and start to see how various stimuli might effect you. They might experience that being charitable and loving etc unlocks deep levels of joy and blissfusness but if they do the opposite they might face a decrease in such feelings etc So it’s not so much you have to be charitable for some moral reason but more you have to be charitable if you want to experience certain feelings within yourself that are much more pleasant than what you may experience if you do the opposite.

yumraj 5y ago
> The backbone of all religions is based on the personal mystical experiences of individuals like Jesus, Mohammad, Budha and many others. Many, not all. Basically newer religions that were founded by an individual such at the ones you mentioned. Ancient, but still practiced, religions, such as Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Native American religions and so on have a different, more nuanced, origin.
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  Zoroastrianism was founded by an individual: Zoroaster. Traditionally it has been viewed as the product of an individual (drawing on some elements of the prevailing religion) just like Christianity, Manichaeism or Buddhism, though details of the founder's biography are now lost to time.
  - yumraj 5y ago
    Thank you for correcting me about Zoroastrianism.

kappi 5y ago

Differences between religions and their philosophies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQv6kqGsR0E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQv6kqGsR0E

mc32 5y ago

Maybe religions imagined by animals? Or do you expect human religions to try to appeal to animals? I'm not religious, so I can't speak from experience; however, I think they speak about people having dominion over nature --dominion here, in that context, meaning stewardship, rather than selfish control. So from that Pov they consider nature.

ssvss 5y ago

Advaita (Non-dualism)- It says the consideration of each human being as a seperate individual self is an illusion, and that all/everything is one. There are different sects which teach/practise Advaita. Among the popular one, one sect advocates the studying of different Upanishads to internalize this non-dualism and realize this truth. The other one (which I follow) advocates meditation on the "I/Self/Presence/Awareness" to realize truth. Ramana Maharishi is the recent proponent of the I/Self path.

wombatmobile 5y ago

> Is there a popular religion that is not completely centered around humans? When a Martian delegation visited Earth in the 1950's, they studied the dominant lifeforms in order to understand the hierarchical organisation of any potential Earth defences. After several weeks of undercover observation, the chief Martian explorer reported that life on Earth had at its apex the most powerful and revered predator which had subjugated all other lifeforms on all 5 continents. Whilst the Martian term for this predator is unpronounceable, NASA cryptographers determined that the organism identified by the explorers was the automobile.

nine_k 5y ago

IDK about currently popular religions, but the old Aztec religion included deities who cared little about human business, except one who was an unpleasant trickster, like Loki. It's still pretty strange to expect a human coping / structuring mechanism like religion to not put humans on a prominent (though usually not very respectable) place.

naruvimama 5y ago

In Hinduism out of the 10 avatars, the first 3 are fish, turtle and boar. They seem to represent evolution of lifeforms as well as human society. We have reached 9, the 10th is a horse faced being, it is either alien, human evolution or a new species that would replace man. Any animals, plants, trees and rocks are also considered divine and have their own festivals. Nepali Kukur tihar is a festival for dogs.

unmole 5y ago
> In Hinduism out of the 10 avatars, the first 3 are fish, turtle and boar. Bhagavatam contains 22 avatars of Vishnu. The arbitrary selection of 10 which sometimes include Buddha is a later day invention. > They seem to represent evolution of lifeforms as well as human society. This is Theospohical interpretation with no basis in actual scripture. It's like using the Book of Mormon to interpret the Old Testament. > the 10th is a horse faced being Kalki is said to ride a horse, not have a horse's head. The horse headed avatar is Hayagriva who oddly enough isn't included in dasavatara.
- naruvimama 5y ago
  Divinity pervades everything and it can manifest itself in any form. The Murthis or deities in every temple however small are such manifestation. Major manifestations are avatars. I took this from this video based on a carving that is more than 2000 years old. https://youtu.be/cZYiH5snMYU https://youtu.be/cZYiH5snMYU