4 ms·

As long as slavery is still legal and well and alive and kicking in US prison system (thanks to 13th amendment) gestures like this won't mean much.

MuffinFlavored 5y ago
> Penal labor in the United States is explicitly allowed by the 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." What are most prisoners forced to do?
- hairofadog 5y ago
  If you're sincerely interested, I found the documentary "13th" to be informative and thought-provoking. https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741 https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741
- jreese 5y ago
  Last Week Tonight on Prison Labor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjqaNQ018zU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjqaNQ018zU
- verall 5y ago
  They are "forced" to work at below minimum wage rates both for the government and individual firms in public-private partnerships. I use "forced" in quotation marks, because although prisoners are no longer forced chain-gang style, these jobs can be a prisoner's only source of money, which is required to purchase communication with the outside world.
  - jasonhansel 5y ago
    In some states (e.g. Texas) prisoners aren't even paid any wages--they're just punished if they refuse to work. An article about this: https://truthout.org/articles/unpaid-labor-in-texas-prisons-is-modern-day-slavery/ https://truthout.org/articles/unpaid-labor-in-texas-prisons-...
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    Is this work economically valuable/worthwhile to whoever is employing them? What are the profit margins that their employers make from their prison labor?
- geofft 5y ago
  Near where I grew up there's a state prison called Angola, built in 1880 on the site of an old plantation called Angola. The slave quarters were repurposed as the original prisoner quarters. Mostly-black prisoners raise cotton and other crops for pennies on the hour, overseen by mostly-white officers called "freemen." https://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/caseconsortium/casestudies/54/casestudy/www/layout/case_id_54_id_547.html https://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/caseconsortium/casestud... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_State_Penitentiary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_State_Penitentiary
Lammy 5y ago
> thanks to 13th amendment Same with housing segregation and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act's exceptions: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1691 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1691 Just like the 13th still allows slavery for prisoners, the ECOA still allows discrimination if the person can't afford the home, incentivizing the system to make housing as expensive as possible: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OEHRENWBSHNO https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OEHRENWBSHNO
- tinyhouse 5y ago
  What are you talking about? Are you saying housing is expensive is a discrimination?
  - Lammy 5y ago
    When it's coupled with an economy that disenfranchises certain groups over others, yes, exactly. Like how America offshored all the manufacturing jobs that used to provide for the middle class.
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      Is it the housing being expensive per se that's discriminatory, or any laws that stand in the way of increasing housing supply? I'd say the latter.
- IncRnd 5y ago
  > the ECOA still allows discrimination if the person can't afford the home, incentivizing the system to make housing as expensive as possible I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that you will sell your house to someone who can't afford it, possibly for a much reduced price?
  - Lammy 5y ago
    Obviously not. That's why it's such an insidious and esoteric way of pulling up the ladder behind the chosen groups.
subsaharancoder 5y ago
Prison is meant to be a deterrent to crime, don't do the crime if you're not prepared to do the time. Last I checked no one is rounding up innocent people and sending them off to the gallows.
- mattigames 5y ago
  Then last time you didn't check very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdvy14fdjj8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdvy14fdjj8 Besides that, slavery its not one a valid punishments in civilized nations.
  - lupire 5y ago
    Why not? Slavery seems completely reasonable as a punishment. Many people choose it as an alternate to non-slave prison sentences. ("Community Service.") It's the brutality and the length of sentence that may make it bad.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- Lammy 5y ago
  Have you ever heard the term "driving while black"?
- murat131 5y ago
  When you checked last time did you also check Reagan and the 80s? US prison system is and has been private for years and that makes the entire "pipeline" from streets all the way to prison private.

MuffinFlavored 5y ago

> Penal labor in the United States is explicitly allowed by the 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." What are most prisoners forced to do?

hairofadog 5y ago
If you're sincerely interested, I found the documentary "13th" to be informative and thought-provoking. https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741 https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741
jreese 5y ago
Last Week Tonight on Prison Labor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjqaNQ018zU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjqaNQ018zU
verall 5y ago
They are "forced" to work at below minimum wage rates both for the government and individual firms in public-private partnerships. I use "forced" in quotation marks, because although prisoners are no longer forced chain-gang style, these jobs can be a prisoner's only source of money, which is required to purchase communication with the outside world.
- jasonhansel 5y ago
  In some states (e.g. Texas) prisoners aren't even paid any wages--they're just punished if they refuse to work. An article about this: https://truthout.org/articles/unpaid-labor-in-texas-prisons-is-modern-day-slavery/ https://truthout.org/articles/unpaid-labor-in-texas-prisons-...
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  Is this work economically valuable/worthwhile to whoever is employing them? What are the profit margins that their employers make from their prison labor?
geofft 5y ago
Near where I grew up there's a state prison called Angola, built in 1880 on the site of an old plantation called Angola. The slave quarters were repurposed as the original prisoner quarters. Mostly-black prisoners raise cotton and other crops for pennies on the hour, overseen by mostly-white officers called "freemen." https://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/caseconsortium/casestudies/54/casestudy/www/layout/case_id_54_id_547.html https://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/caseconsortium/casestud... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_State_Penitentiary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_State_Penitentiary

Lammy 5y ago

> thanks to 13th amendment Same with housing segregation and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act's exceptions: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1691 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1691 Just like the 13th still allows slavery for prisoners, the ECOA still allows discrimination if the person can't afford the home, incentivizing the system to make housing as expensive as possible: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OEHRENWBSHNO https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OEHRENWBSHNO

tinyhouse 5y ago
What are you talking about? Are you saying housing is expensive is a discrimination?
- Lammy 5y ago
  When it's coupled with an economy that disenfranchises certain groups over others, yes, exactly. Like how America offshored all the manufacturing jobs that used to provide for the middle class.
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    Is it the housing being expensive per se that's discriminatory, or any laws that stand in the way of increasing housing supply? I'd say the latter.
IncRnd 5y ago
> the ECOA still allows discrimination if the person can't afford the home, incentivizing the system to make housing as expensive as possible I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that you will sell your house to someone who can't afford it, possibly for a much reduced price?
- Lammy 5y ago
  Obviously not. That's why it's such an insidious and esoteric way of pulling up the ladder behind the chosen groups.

subsaharancoder 5y ago

Prison is meant to be a deterrent to crime, don't do the crime if you're not prepared to do the time. Last I checked no one is rounding up innocent people and sending them off to the gallows.

mattigames 5y ago
Then last time you didn't check very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdvy14fdjj8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdvy14fdjj8 Besides that, slavery its not one a valid punishments in civilized nations.
- lupire 5y ago
  Why not? Slavery seems completely reasonable as a punishment. Many people choose it as an alternate to non-slave prison sentences. ("Community Service.") It's the brutality and the length of sentence that may make it bad.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
Lammy 5y ago
Have you ever heard the term "driving while black"?
murat131 5y ago
When you checked last time did you also check Reagan and the 80s? US prison system is and has been private for years and that makes the entire "pipeline" from streets all the way to prison private.