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The Pahlavi kings were Shi'ite Muslims. This article is spinning a revisionist narrative that has a mild whiff of using religion to divide a people. I lived in

The Pahlavi kings were Shi'ite Muslims. This article is spinning a revisionist narrative that has a mild whiff of using religion to divide a people. I lived in the Pahlavi Iran, which is certainly missed, but the notion that there was "neo-Zoroastrianism" in the air is news to me. Zoroaster was very simply framed as one of the prophets that the Muslim scripture asserts has been sent to "every nation" by God. Iranians were rather fed (and many actually believe this!) an interesting fable about how Shia Islam is the Iranian version of Islam. And from the 3 major classical Iranian empires and eras, it was not the very assertively Zoroastrian Sassanid empire that was memorialized and used as a vehicle to promote nationalism by Pahlavi Shahs, but rather the Hakhamaneshian (Achaemenid) dynasty. When the late Shah of Iran held his memorial to 2500 years of Iranian kings, he saluted Cyrus the Great, not some zealously Zoroastrian Sassanid Shah. http://irancollection.alborzi.com/2500/index.htm http://irancollection.alborzi.com/2500/index.htm Note the missing "flame". Note, instead, the Cylinder of Ku-Rosh (Cyrus the Great). And Cyrus, unlike his equally great successor Dariush, was rather cagey about his actual religious beliefs. Even in what passes for native "neo-classical" architecture, it was again the Achaemenid era that was front and center. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iranian_Foreign_Affaire_Ministry.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iranian_Foreign_Affaire_M...

danans 5y ago
> This article is spinning a revisionist narrative that has a mild whiff of using religion to divide a people. I think the article fairly represents that it was a complicated situation - with the Pahlavis using Zoroastrianism sourced from India as a tool to fuel Iranian nationalism, i.e.: "At the core of this tension lay the “implicit contradictions between the liberal goals of the Parsis and the more nationalist goals of many Iranians” during the interwar decades of the 1920s and 1930s." Perhaps as a result of the sponsorship of the Pahlavis, nearly every Iranian I've met outside Iran (including many who lived there before 1979) have good understanding of Zoroastrianism's role in Iran's history and culture - and a reason why many people in post-Islamic Iran have liberal values despite living under a theocracy. > Iranians were rather fed (and many actually believe this!) an interesting fable about how Shia Islam is the Iranian version of Islam. Persia had a significant influence on Islam even before the Arab conquest of Persia, evidenced by the Persian loanwords in Arabic [1]. It's hard to imagine how Persian culture wouldn't have had a huge influence on Islam inside Persia itself. 1. https://burjbaabil.com/2014/05/31/persian-loanwords-in-arabic/ https://burjbaabil.com/2014/05/31/persian-loanwords-in-arabi...
- eternalban 5y ago
  It is simply not true. Iranian nationalism was front and center on the glory of Achaemenids. Period. In fact the only time that Zoroastrian religion has been used to prop up a state and sense of nationality in Iran was the 3rd Persian empire, so the article misses the target by about 2000 years. It was the Sassanid kings that needed religion to revive a sense of Iran after Hellenic rule, and also to gain legitimacy because they overthrew the Parthian dynasty. > Perhaps as a result of the sponsorship of the Pahlavis, nearly every Iranian I've met outside Iran (including many who lived there before 1979) have good understanding of Zoroastrianism's role in Iran's history and culture - and a reason why many people in post-Islamic Iran have liberal values despite living under a theocracy. Zoroastrians are not "liberal". No religion with priests can ever be "liberal". It's the original religion with a zillion rules of dos and donts. Iranians are liberal because that is our nature. Because our poets constantly drill it in to our national psyche to be tolerent, generous, think of others, etc. Was Saadi a Zoroastrian? Ferdosi? Hafiz? Attar? Rumi? Khayam? Even illiterate Iranians can recite chapter and verse from the literally wealth of our nation. The first "theocracy" in Iran was, as a matter of historic fact, the Sassanid Empire. And the original Ayatollahs of Iran were called Mobed Mobedan. _ALL_ of instances of extreme intolerance in Iran have happened during periods when the -clergy- was powerful and involved in matters of state. First time around was in the decidedly Zoroastrian Sassanid empire, and then after that so-and-so :) Shah Abbas II divided the state between Court and Mosque, under Shia Mullahs, which is how the Mullahs came to have so much power in Iran. (Read "Religious developments") https://www.britannica.com/topic/mobedan-mobed https://www.britannica.com/topic/mobedan-mobed [https://iranicaonline.org/articles/borzmehr-pahlavi-lit https://iranicaonline.org/articles/borzmehr-pahlavi-lit] Pay attention there to a man named Ferdosi. We got our history from him. The -ludicrous- notion that Iranians were unaware of our history and heritage of Zartosht until some Zoroastrians from India came to instruct us is just too much. Read all about the "liberal" treatment of Christians in a theocratic Iran ("II. The Persecution of Bahram V"): https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/An_Introduction_to_the_History_of_the_Assyrian_Church/Chapter_6 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/An_Introduction_to_the_Histor... > Persia had a significant influence on Islam even before the Arab conquest of Persia, evidenced by the Persian loanwords in Arabic [1]. It's hard to imagine how Persian culture wouldn't have had a huge influence on Islam inside Persia itself. Of course. Iran has had a huge impact in history and all sort of matters. And yes, Allah uses a Persian word to name Paradise and he even calls ITself "Ahura-Mazda" (in Arabic, naturally :)

danans 5y ago

> This article is spinning a revisionist narrative that has a mild whiff of using religion to divide a people. I think the article fairly represents that it was a complicated situation - with the Pahlavis using Zoroastrianism sourced from India as a tool to fuel Iranian nationalism, i.e.: "At the core of this tension lay the “implicit contradictions between the liberal goals of the Parsis and the more nationalist goals of many Iranians” during the interwar decades of the 1920s and 1930s." Perhaps as a result of the sponsorship of the Pahlavis, nearly every Iranian I've met outside Iran (including many who lived there before 1979) have good understanding of Zoroastrianism's role in Iran's history and culture - and a reason why many people in post-Islamic Iran have liberal values despite living under a theocracy. > Iranians were rather fed (and many actually believe this!) an interesting fable about how Shia Islam is the Iranian version of Islam. Persia had a significant influence on Islam even before the Arab conquest of Persia, evidenced by the Persian loanwords in Arabic [1]. It's hard to imagine how Persian culture wouldn't have had a huge influence on Islam inside Persia itself. 1. https://burjbaabil.com/2014/05/31/persian-loanwords-in-arabic/ https://burjbaabil.com/2014/05/31/persian-loanwords-in-arabi...

eternalban 5y ago
It is simply not true. Iranian nationalism was front and center on the glory of Achaemenids. Period. In fact the only time that Zoroastrian religion has been used to prop up a state and sense of nationality in Iran was the 3rd Persian empire, so the article misses the target by about 2000 years. It was the Sassanid kings that needed religion to revive a sense of Iran after Hellenic rule, and also to gain legitimacy because they overthrew the Parthian dynasty. > Perhaps as a result of the sponsorship of the Pahlavis, nearly every Iranian I've met outside Iran (including many who lived there before 1979) have good understanding of Zoroastrianism's role in Iran's history and culture - and a reason why many people in post-Islamic Iran have liberal values despite living under a theocracy. Zoroastrians are not "liberal". No religion with priests can ever be "liberal". It's the original religion with a zillion rules of dos and donts. Iranians are liberal because that is our nature. Because our poets constantly drill it in to our national psyche to be tolerent, generous, think of others, etc. Was Saadi a Zoroastrian? Ferdosi? Hafiz? Attar? Rumi? Khayam? Even illiterate Iranians can recite chapter and verse from the literally wealth of our nation. The first "theocracy" in Iran was, as a matter of historic fact, the Sassanid Empire. And the original Ayatollahs of Iran were called Mobed Mobedan. _ALL_ of instances of extreme intolerance in Iran have happened during periods when the -clergy- was powerful and involved in matters of state. First time around was in the decidedly Zoroastrian Sassanid empire, and then after that so-and-so :) Shah Abbas II divided the state between Court and Mosque, under Shia Mullahs, which is how the Mullahs came to have so much power in Iran. (Read "Religious developments") https://www.britannica.com/topic/mobedan-mobed https://www.britannica.com/topic/mobedan-mobed [https://iranicaonline.org/articles/borzmehr-pahlavi-lit https://iranicaonline.org/articles/borzmehr-pahlavi-lit] Pay attention there to a man named Ferdosi. We got our history from him. The -ludicrous- notion that Iranians were unaware of our history and heritage of Zartosht until some Zoroastrians from India came to instruct us is just too much. Read all about the "liberal" treatment of Christians in a theocratic Iran ("II. The Persecution of Bahram V"): https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/An_Introduction_to_the_History_of_the_Assyrian_Church/Chapter_6 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/An_Introduction_to_the_Histor... > Persia had a significant influence on Islam even before the Arab conquest of Persia, evidenced by the Persian loanwords in Arabic [1]. It's hard to imagine how Persian culture wouldn't have had a huge influence on Islam inside Persia itself. Of course. Iran has had a huge impact in history and all sort of matters. And yes, Allah uses a Persian word to name Paradise and he even calls ITself "Ahura-Mazda" (in Arabic, naturally :)