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A few years ago now I was reading a lot about Buddhism and its tenets about mindfulness and other ways of dealing with the things life throws at you or when you

A few years ago now I was reading a lot about Buddhism and its tenets about mindfulness and other ways of dealing with the things life throws at you or when you get into a negative state of mind. A couple years after that I had a friend that was going through Cognitive Behavioural Therapy with a psychiatrist, a really good one from what I could tell I might add, my friend let me read through the CBT book. Turns out, it's nearly identical to what the ideas Buddhism tries to teach, with all the religious aspect stripped away. It's essentially the same concept though. Being mindful of patterns of behaviour or thoughts that lead to negative actions or mind states and the tools you can use to conciously avoid and correct them. It really seemed to help my friend and honestly, it seems like something that would be good for everybody to learn.

nescioquid 5y ago
The rather similar philosophical schools (stoicism, epicurianism, cynicism) arising in Greece at a time not terribly long after the death of Siddhartha Guatama always made me wonder if there was a connection. Ex oriente lux, ex occidente lex (from the east light, from the west law). I've read that the roots of CBT were founded on stoic philosophy, so perhaps there is a connection.
- grawprog 5y ago
  I have to admit I don't know much about the history of stoic philosophy. I never realized such a thing existed. I also was never sure about exactly what CBT was based on or anything about the history of it. Thank you, I'll have to do some reading it seems. The way different philosophies, myths and religions travelled around the world and evolved over time has always fascinated me. So much still is based on things from hundreds or even thousands of years ago.
- Retric 5y ago
  Stoicism actually has roots in Cynicism. It’s unclear where individual ideas come from, but it’s actually possible Buddhism has some roots in western philosophy. As reasoning creatures, people can gain happiness by rigorous training and by living in a way which is natural for themselves, rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, and fame. Instead, they were to lead a simple life free from all possessions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy)
  - bumby 5y ago
    >it’s actually possible Buddhism has some roots in western philosophy. I think the OP was implying it was the other way around. I.e., Cynicism (and thus Stoicism) draw from Buddhism. It seems like Siddhartha Gautama predates Antisthenes by nearly 150 years. (Granted, that doesn’t mean that ideas between them weren’t shared later, it just indicates which was started first)
    - Retric 5y ago
      I agree that’s what OP was saying, my point is it’s not the only way things could have happened. First the dates aren’t that clear. Gautama Buddha was born between 563 BCE or 480 BCE. Antisthenes was born in 446 BC. So he’s between 38 and 117 years more recent, though they both lived to ~80, so it’s possible they where alive at the same time. Anyway, it’s obvious similar ideas in different places where very contemporary to each other. What’s unclear is what these philosophers where culturally exposed to. Basically, we can’t trace which ideas they came up with and which ones they copied unless we find an older source, as such it’s impossible to say the origins of such things.
      - nemo 5y ago
        There definitely was interchange between various Greeks and Buddhists since Mahayana Buddhism's early development was in much contact with the Greeks from Hellenistic kingdoms in Bactria and India and some of those Greeks converted to Buddhism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_monasticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_monasticism Gandharan Buddhist art is steeped in Greek stylization and the first images of the Buddha followed Greek stylizations - early Buddhists didn't depict the Buddha at all, just symbols like empty footprints, it wasn't until Greek contact that this began. Thomas McEvilley's _The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies_ has an interesting discussion of similarities between earlier Stoic texts by Sextus Empiricus and some works of Nagarjuna (one of the most important Mayahana philosophers) that use the same arguments, metaphors, and structuring. He goes over a number of other ancient sources, Greek and Indian, describing various sorts of cultural contact and interchange. Pre-Hellenistic contact between the Greeks and India occurred but we can only speculate about it since there's no reliable evidence. After Alexander there was a lot of interchange and it had a big impact on Indian art, architecture, theater, and culture (as well as bringing significant influence of Indian stylization, philosophy, etc. on Greek Hellenistic kingdoms in Bactria and India).
- webnrrd2k 5y ago
  I haven't gotten into the details, but there was a connection via Alexander the Great. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism Edit: less on topic, but I've always thought that Jehosephat was an interesting confection, too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlaam_and_Josaphat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlaam_and_Josaphat

nescioquid 5y ago

The rather similar philosophical schools (stoicism, epicurianism, cynicism) arising in Greece at a time not terribly long after the death of Siddhartha Guatama always made me wonder if there was a connection. Ex oriente lux, ex occidente lex (from the east light, from the west law). I've read that the roots of CBT were founded on stoic philosophy, so perhaps there is a connection.

grawprog 5y ago
I have to admit I don't know much about the history of stoic philosophy. I never realized such a thing existed. I also was never sure about exactly what CBT was based on or anything about the history of it. Thank you, I'll have to do some reading it seems. The way different philosophies, myths and religions travelled around the world and evolved over time has always fascinated me. So much still is based on things from hundreds or even thousands of years ago.
Retric 5y ago
Stoicism actually has roots in Cynicism. It’s unclear where individual ideas come from, but it’s actually possible Buddhism has some roots in western philosophy. As reasoning creatures, people can gain happiness by rigorous training and by living in a way which is natural for themselves, rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, and fame. Instead, they were to lead a simple life free from all possessions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy)
- bumby 5y ago
  >it’s actually possible Buddhism has some roots in western philosophy. I think the OP was implying it was the other way around. I.e., Cynicism (and thus Stoicism) draw from Buddhism. It seems like Siddhartha Gautama predates Antisthenes by nearly 150 years. (Granted, that doesn’t mean that ideas between them weren’t shared later, it just indicates which was started first)
  - Retric 5y ago
    I agree that’s what OP was saying, my point is it’s not the only way things could have happened. First the dates aren’t that clear. Gautama Buddha was born between 563 BCE or 480 BCE. Antisthenes was born in 446 BC. So he’s between 38 and 117 years more recent, though they both lived to ~80, so it’s possible they where alive at the same time. Anyway, it’s obvious similar ideas in different places where very contemporary to each other. What’s unclear is what these philosophers where culturally exposed to. Basically, we can’t trace which ideas they came up with and which ones they copied unless we find an older source, as such it’s impossible to say the origins of such things.
    - nemo 5y ago
      There definitely was interchange between various Greeks and Buddhists since Mahayana Buddhism's early development was in much contact with the Greeks from Hellenistic kingdoms in Bactria and India and some of those Greeks converted to Buddhism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_monasticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_monasticism Gandharan Buddhist art is steeped in Greek stylization and the first images of the Buddha followed Greek stylizations - early Buddhists didn't depict the Buddha at all, just symbols like empty footprints, it wasn't until Greek contact that this began. Thomas McEvilley's _The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies_ has an interesting discussion of similarities between earlier Stoic texts by Sextus Empiricus and some works of Nagarjuna (one of the most important Mayahana philosophers) that use the same arguments, metaphors, and structuring. He goes over a number of other ancient sources, Greek and Indian, describing various sorts of cultural contact and interchange. Pre-Hellenistic contact between the Greeks and India occurred but we can only speculate about it since there's no reliable evidence. After Alexander there was a lot of interchange and it had a big impact on Indian art, architecture, theater, and culture (as well as bringing significant influence of Indian stylization, philosophy, etc. on Greek Hellenistic kingdoms in Bactria and India).
webnrrd2k 5y ago
I haven't gotten into the details, but there was a connection via Alexander the Great. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism Edit: less on topic, but I've always thought that Jehosephat was an interesting confection, too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlaam_and_Josaphat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlaam_and_Josaphat