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"...then using any wifi device is illegal..." Let's not be pedantic here. We call a technology illegal when there is no legal way to use it. Wifi stations do

"...then using any wifi device is illegal..." Let's not be pedantic here. We call a technology illegal when there is no legal way to use it. Wifi stations do not just discard frames not intended for them; APs typically keep track of the frequency utilization in their immediate vicinity in order to choose the least crowded channel for the networks they manage. More advanced APs (e.g. CBW APs) will also keep track of other APs and nearby stations long-term for various other purposes (mostly related to improving wireless throughput). There is also DFS/TPC in the 5Ghz band, which involves continuously listening for transmissions that are clearly not intended for any wifi devices (and recording the time and frequency on which such a transmission was received so that an AP does not select that channel again). If your argument is that "displaying" the received transmission is the issue, then Google has done nothing wrong, because the BSSID/GPS database is not "displayed" to any human beings -- the entire system is automated, much like the CSMA and DFS/TPC technologies of wifi itself. Personally I think that is a weak argument since it would make it legally questionable to use a debugger on a device that operates in an explicitly unlicensed part of the radio spectrum. You are right that judges and juries are human beings. They make mistakes when they are tasked with interpreting laws governing technologies they do not understand, and that is why we rely on organizations like the FCC, which are supposed to rely on actual experts when deciding compliance. I doubt that any major corporation would sell wifi equipment if there was any serious question about the legality of monitoring transmissions intended for other stations in the ISM bands. This whole debate sounds like another case of "Google did something, how dare they!"

dmurray 5y ago
> If your argument is that "displaying" the received transmission is the issue, then Google has done nothing wrong, because the BSSID/GPS database is not "displayed" to any human beings -- the entire system is automated, much like the CSMA and DFS/TPC technologies of wifi itself. Personally I think that is a weak argument since it would make it legally questionable to use a debugger on a device that operates in an explicitly unlicensed part of the radio spectrum. This seems like a plausible argument to me. Google use similar arguments with, say, Gmail: their algorithms can read your mail and use what they learn to show you ads, but individual engineers can't, even for debugging purposes.

dmurray 5y ago

> If your argument is that "displaying" the received transmission is the issue, then Google has done nothing wrong, because the BSSID/GPS database is not "displayed" to any human beings -- the entire system is automated, much like the CSMA and DFS/TPC technologies of wifi itself. Personally I think that is a weak argument since it would make it legally questionable to use a debugger on a device that operates in an explicitly unlicensed part of the radio spectrum. This seems like a plausible argument to me. Google use similar arguments with, say, Gmail: their algorithms can read your mail and use what they learn to show you ads, but individual engineers can't, even for debugging purposes.