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Radio Free Europe — The CIA creates its first major propaganda outlet, Radio Free Europe. Over the next several decades, its broadcasts are so blatantly false t

Radio Free Europe — The CIA creates its first major propaganda outlet, Radio Free Europe. Over the next several decades, its broadcasts are so blatantly false that for a time it is considered illegal to publish transcripts of them in the U.S. No, Radio Free Europe was not an atrocity.

dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
Just logged in to say the same. For millions behind the Iron Curtain, it was a breath of fresh air, it was like a ray of hope. It was liberating just hear someone speaking publicly things you could not. You could write long stories about that.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  It was liberating to hear a different kind of propaganda whose purpose was even less aligned with your own? I guess I can understand, but let's not pretend the goal of RFE was anything except increasing American power over Eastern Europe, against the will of the majority.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    > against the will of the majority. What will of the majority? Populations of the eastern block were never consulted about that, and definitely didn’t have the option of leaving.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      The goal of RFE wasn't to give Eastern Europeans what they wanted. It was to further US domination, no more, no less. To this objective RFE was full of lies, and did not reflect the honestly held beliefs of people behind it. Hence, it was against the will of the average people unless that will was to further American interests.
    - piva00 5y ago
      > What will of the majority? Populations of the eastern block were never consulted about that, and definitely didn’t have the option of leaving. They didn't have the choice either to not listen to blatantly false propaganda being spread to further US's power over them. As bad as it was life behind the Iron Curtain, the people there didn't ask to be swayed into America's fold either, they were being used by both sides of the Cold War, as usual.
      - masklinn 5y ago
        > They didn't have the choice either to not listen to blatantly false propaganda being spread to further US's power over them. Of course they did, your statement is completely nonsensical. RFE was just a broadcast, sometimes jammed by eastern block authorities. Not listening to RFE was as simple as not tuning in.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
    > against the will of the majority. I heard many strange things on HN, but this is in top 10. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the history of the Eastern block. In short, the governments were communist and linked to Russia, but as soon as they freed, they overthrown communism, cut the ties with Russia, and became democracies, with most of them joining the EU. Of course people were well aware of the power struggle between the USA and Russia over decades, and they had no illusions over what the interests are. After all, Western warheads were directed at their cities. Nevertheless, all of them choose West. The only exception is Belarus, where people can't express themselves freely. There many things the CIA did wrong. There were some unthinkable atrocities. But RFE wasn't one of them. Maybe it's not clear from the American perspective and the main Wikipedia page; local pages (such as[0]) are much more telling - you can easily understand that it was the only source of free expression of this kind, joined by some of the greatest thinkers, writers, and other artists and activists of that era, all of them facing grave consequences for appearing on the radio. If you haven't seen the people sitting in the evenings with their ears next to the radio (the jammers were quite strong), yearning for a few words that were not lies, it's very difficult for understand. [0] https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozg%C5%82o%C5%9Bnia_Polska_Radia_Wolna_Europa https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozg%C5%82o%C5%9Bnia_Polska_Ra...
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      RFE was not free expression. It was just more propaganda. The people that went on it were carefully selected and it didn't balk at lies and manipulation. We both know that the change of economic systems was not somethings that the average persons did. It was executed by the leadership. Polls were made and most people were against drastic changes of economic systems that literally killed millions of people. Unless your will is to further American interests, RFE was against your will. No more, no less. It was propaganda and manipulative and untruthful just as much as Pravda. Just because you like the ideology of the propaganda doesn't make it any less of a manipulation and a déception.
      - dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
        It doesn't matter what I feel, personally I'm just as against American economic imperialism as most people who see how evil it is. However, you previously said it was against the will of millions, while the opposite was true: the millions marched against communism. Millions went on the streets against the old system, and same gave their life. Does anyone want the return of communist Russia? Based on the polls, not really. Even the radical left would never suggest such a thing. > Unless your will is to further American interests, RFE was against your will. No more, no less. I'm sorry, to me it's look like a semantic error. Maybe you meant "against your interests"? Because the term "will" has a precise meaning - if I want something, this is my will. In order to have a fruitful discussion, it is necessary to adhere to the generally accepted meaning of terms, otherwise everything becomes moot.
masklinn 5y ago
Aye, RFE was not "forbidden" in the US because it was propaganda (though it was that), but because it was considered way soft on communist, if not outright socialist. Fulton Lewis (Tucker Carlson's predecessor, essentially) was a big critic of RFE, and a big fan of McCarthy (even after the latter's fall from grace). Because it was not officially under governmental control (the ties to the CIA would only be revealed after Rampart's investigation released in 1967) it was spared from a McCarthyist witch-hunt, otherwise there's little doubt it would have taken several hatchet hits.
lucian1900 5y ago
It’s part of why capitalism was restored as part of a coup in my country in 89. Millions are far poorer for it.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I don't understand why this is downvoted. Capitalism was in fact restored undemocratically and against the wish of the majority and millions of people literally died from that. Just because you personally like capitalism doesn't mean that forcing it as part of coup which led to millions of death isn't an atrocity. And yes propaganda was part of it.
  - whythre 5y ago
    For generations many of the critics of socialism were sent to camps and/or shot. I would find it unsurprising that there were few people voting against socialism; the regime spent such significant time and effort to silence supporters of every other system of government.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      And yet those same critics found themselves at the head of the communist party and executed a coup. This is not an excuse to destroy and society a replace it with whatever you choose against the will of its inhabitants. It's just an excuse for more dictatorial behaviour.
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    I’ve found almost any anti-imperialist or pro-socialist comments get downvoted on HN. It’s not that surprising considering the class character of the site, most are or aspire to be owners exploiting the labour of workers.
- l33t2328 5y ago
  What country?
  - 5y ago

dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago

Just logged in to say the same. For millions behind the Iron Curtain, it was a breath of fresh air, it was like a ray of hope. It was liberating just hear someone speaking publicly things you could not. You could write long stories about that.

sudosysgen 5y ago
It was liberating to hear a different kind of propaganda whose purpose was even less aligned with your own? I guess I can understand, but let's not pretend the goal of RFE was anything except increasing American power over Eastern Europe, against the will of the majority.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > against the will of the majority. What will of the majority? Populations of the eastern block were never consulted about that, and definitely didn’t have the option of leaving.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    The goal of RFE wasn't to give Eastern Europeans what they wanted. It was to further US domination, no more, no less. To this objective RFE was full of lies, and did not reflect the honestly held beliefs of people behind it. Hence, it was against the will of the average people unless that will was to further American interests.
  - piva00 5y ago
    > What will of the majority? Populations of the eastern block were never consulted about that, and definitely didn’t have the option of leaving. They didn't have the choice either to not listen to blatantly false propaganda being spread to further US's power over them. As bad as it was life behind the Iron Curtain, the people there didn't ask to be swayed into America's fold either, they were being used by both sides of the Cold War, as usual.
    - masklinn 5y ago
      > They didn't have the choice either to not listen to blatantly false propaganda being spread to further US's power over them. Of course they did, your statement is completely nonsensical. RFE was just a broadcast, sometimes jammed by eastern block authorities. Not listening to RFE was as simple as not tuning in.
- dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
  > against the will of the majority. I heard many strange things on HN, but this is in top 10. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the history of the Eastern block. In short, the governments were communist and linked to Russia, but as soon as they freed, they overthrown communism, cut the ties with Russia, and became democracies, with most of them joining the EU. Of course people were well aware of the power struggle between the USA and Russia over decades, and they had no illusions over what the interests are. After all, Western warheads were directed at their cities. Nevertheless, all of them choose West. The only exception is Belarus, where people can't express themselves freely. There many things the CIA did wrong. There were some unthinkable atrocities. But RFE wasn't one of them. Maybe it's not clear from the American perspective and the main Wikipedia page; local pages (such as[0]) are much more telling - you can easily understand that it was the only source of free expression of this kind, joined by some of the greatest thinkers, writers, and other artists and activists of that era, all of them facing grave consequences for appearing on the radio. If you haven't seen the people sitting in the evenings with their ears next to the radio (the jammers were quite strong), yearning for a few words that were not lies, it's very difficult for understand. [0] https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozg%C5%82o%C5%9Bnia_Polska_Radia_Wolna_Europa https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozg%C5%82o%C5%9Bnia_Polska_Ra...
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    RFE was not free expression. It was just more propaganda. The people that went on it were carefully selected and it didn't balk at lies and manipulation. We both know that the change of economic systems was not somethings that the average persons did. It was executed by the leadership. Polls were made and most people were against drastic changes of economic systems that literally killed millions of people. Unless your will is to further American interests, RFE was against your will. No more, no less. It was propaganda and manipulative and untruthful just as much as Pravda. Just because you like the ideology of the propaganda doesn't make it any less of a manipulation and a déception.
    - dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
      It doesn't matter what I feel, personally I'm just as against American economic imperialism as most people who see how evil it is. However, you previously said it was against the will of millions, while the opposite was true: the millions marched against communism. Millions went on the streets against the old system, and same gave their life. Does anyone want the return of communist Russia? Based on the polls, not really. Even the radical left would never suggest such a thing. > Unless your will is to further American interests, RFE was against your will. No more, no less. I'm sorry, to me it's look like a semantic error. Maybe you meant "against your interests"? Because the term "will" has a precise meaning - if I want something, this is my will. In order to have a fruitful discussion, it is necessary to adhere to the generally accepted meaning of terms, otherwise everything becomes moot.

masklinn 5y ago

Aye, RFE was not "forbidden" in the US because it was propaganda (though it was that), but because it was considered way soft on communist, if not outright socialist. Fulton Lewis (Tucker Carlson's predecessor, essentially) was a big critic of RFE, and a big fan of McCarthy (even after the latter's fall from grace). Because it was not officially under governmental control (the ties to the CIA would only be revealed after Rampart's investigation released in 1967) it was spared from a McCarthyist witch-hunt, otherwise there's little doubt it would have taken several hatchet hits.

lucian1900 5y ago

It’s part of why capitalism was restored as part of a coup in my country in 89. Millions are far poorer for it.

sudosysgen 5y ago
I don't understand why this is downvoted. Capitalism was in fact restored undemocratically and against the wish of the majority and millions of people literally died from that. Just because you personally like capitalism doesn't mean that forcing it as part of coup which led to millions of death isn't an atrocity. And yes propaganda was part of it.
- whythre 5y ago
  For generations many of the critics of socialism were sent to camps and/or shot. I would find it unsurprising that there were few people voting against socialism; the regime spent such significant time and effort to silence supporters of every other system of government.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    And yet those same critics found themselves at the head of the communist party and executed a coup. This is not an excuse to destroy and society a replace it with whatever you choose against the will of its inhabitants. It's just an excuse for more dictatorial behaviour.
- lucian1900 5y ago
  I’ve found almost any anti-imperialist or pro-socialist comments get downvoted on HN. It’s not that surprising considering the class character of the site, most are or aspire to be owners exploiting the labour of workers.
l33t2328 5y ago
What country?
- 5y ago