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David McGowan suggests that a lot of the pop/drug culture of the late 60s was driven by the CIA as an attempt to subvert the anti-war movement. https://www.ama

David McGowan suggests that a lot of the pop/drug culture of the late 60s was driven by the CIA as an attempt to subvert the anti-war movement. https://www.amazon.com/Weird-Scenes-Inside-Canyon-Laurel/dp/1909394122 https://www.amazon.com/Weird-Scenes-Inside-Canyon-Laurel/dp/... I don’t think is anywhere near conclusive, but it’s definitely plausible given the information he lays out. Fun fact: Jim Morrison’s dad literally started the Vietnam War when he led the fleet that fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin Incident: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

bayesian_horse 5y ago
The CIA didn't mastermind the Vietnam war. That would have been politicians.
- luffapi 5y ago
  I don’t think the suggestion is that the CIA masterminded the war, it’s that they were employed to squash dissent against the war/test out what they learned with Operation Paperclip and Mk Ultra.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Jim Morrison’s dad literally started the Vietnam War when he led the fleet that fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin Incident: No, he didn't, because the Vietnam War (the US involvement, which itself arguably was merely a continuation of the French colonial conflict) started long before the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
- luffapi 5y ago
  The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was directly used by LBJ to start the war. The act of Congress was called The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Resolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Resolution Yes, there’s a lot of events that led to this, but this is the act that started the war, and it was completely fabricated.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was directly used by LBJ to start the war. The US had been fighting the war since 1954. > The act of Congress was called The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution: Acts of Congress may authorize or declare wars, but they only start wars if the armed conflict isn’t already underway when Congress acts. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution didn't start the Vietnam War (or US involvement in that war), much as the “Joint Resolution Declaring that a state of war exists between the Imperial Government of Japan and the Government and the people of the United States and making provisions to prosecute the same” of December 8, 1941, didn’t start WWII, or US involvement therein (though the latter was closer in time to the start of US involvement in WWII than the former was to the start of US involvement in the Vietnam War.)
    - luffapi 5y ago
      The military exercises Morrison was executing were obviously also pre-war. This was the official start of the war.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
AndrewBissell 5y ago
Then there's the other big McGowan thesis, which is that the Phoenix Program was imported to the US to terrorize the domestic populace into dissociation and submission, an effort whose fingerprints can be seen in the sudden rise of serial killings in the 1960s: https://www.amazon.com/Programmed-Kill-Politics-Serial-Murder/dp/0595326404/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=programmed+to+kill&qid=1623782272&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Programmed-Kill-Politics-Serial-Murde...

bayesian_horse 5y ago

The CIA didn't mastermind the Vietnam war. That would have been politicians.

luffapi 5y ago
I don’t think the suggestion is that the CIA masterminded the war, it’s that they were employed to squash dissent against the war/test out what they learned with Operation Paperclip and Mk Ultra.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Jim Morrison’s dad literally started the Vietnam War when he led the fleet that fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin Incident: No, he didn't, because the Vietnam War (the US involvement, which itself arguably was merely a continuation of the French colonial conflict) started long before the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

luffapi 5y ago
The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was directly used by LBJ to start the war. The act of Congress was called The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Resolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Resolution Yes, there’s a lot of events that led to this, but this is the act that started the war, and it was completely fabricated.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was directly used by LBJ to start the war. The US had been fighting the war since 1954. > The act of Congress was called The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution: Acts of Congress may authorize or declare wars, but they only start wars if the armed conflict isn’t already underway when Congress acts. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution didn't start the Vietnam War (or US involvement in that war), much as the “Joint Resolution Declaring that a state of war exists between the Imperial Government of Japan and the Government and the people of the United States and making provisions to prosecute the same” of December 8, 1941, didn’t start WWII, or US involvement therein (though the latter was closer in time to the start of US involvement in WWII than the former was to the start of US involvement in the Vietnam War.)
  - luffapi 5y ago
    The military exercises Morrison was executing were obviously also pre-war. This was the official start of the war.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

AndrewBissell 5y ago

Then there's the other big McGowan thesis, which is that the Phoenix Program was imported to the US to terrorize the domestic populace into dissociation and submission, an effort whose fingerprints can be seen in the sudden rise of serial killings in the 1960s: https://www.amazon.com/Programmed-Kill-Politics-Serial-Murder/dp/0595326404/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=programmed+to+kill&qid=1623782272&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Programmed-Kill-Politics-Serial-Murde...