7 ms·

and yet, the machine churns on. Just wanted to put a reminder here that the Government Accountability Office (GAO) has not been able to audit the CIA for over 4

and yet, the machine churns on. Just wanted to put a reminder here that the Government Accountability Office (GAO) has not been able to audit the CIA for over 40 years [0]. Evil likes to be unaccountable, and it's gotten just that. How much more blood will we allow to spill as an American populace before we demand an end to the CIA? This list focuses mainly on foreign engagements by the agency. The domestic activities by the CIA are vast and unaccounted for, bordering on the unimaginable. We (Americans) have been living in lies, living in shadows, living in death. There is no tangible difference between the acronyms USA and CIA. We have been sold to the devil, and we've made him our master. [0] https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-01-975t.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-01-975t.pdf

zepto 5y ago
> There is no tangible difference between the acronyms USA and CIA. We have been sold to the devil, and we've made him our master. What are you talking about? Every country has spy agencies and almost every country conducts covert operations.
- birdyrooster 5y ago
  I’m thinking that spy organizations should still have accountability when they fuck up which ultimately could be complete reorganization.
- mc32 5y ago
  No, Cuba never intervened in the politics of other countries or engaged in assassination in other countries or sent mercenaries to other countries or exported their ideology to other countries. Only bad countries did that. That's right Cuba did not send 4,000 troops to Syria to fight against Israel in the Yom Kippur war. They also probably didn't send troops into Somalia nor support the MIR and FPMR to destabilize Chile.
  - alrs 5y ago
    Well, kinda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_intervention_in_Angola https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_intervention_in_Angola
    - Der_Einzige 5y ago
      It's not even well kinda, Cuba absolutely did intervene heavily in Africa. The stereotype of some old south African mercenary that loves to kill communists is directly as a result of this war.
      - alienthrowaway 5y ago
        > It's not even well kinda, Cuba absolutely did intervene heavily in Africa. As did the US - the CIA was instrumental in the arrest of Nelson Mandela while he was on the lam. A number of Vietnam vets went on to "fight communism" in African wars of independence. African decolonisation and the cold war was a complex mix.On one side, you had a white settler minority ruling class, ostensibly on the side of Capitalism and western values. On the other side, you had the majority agitating for full democracy with voting rights extended beyond the minority, but found no help from the west when they requested it. The same story played out in multiple countries, including Vietnam: they'd be rebuffed by the west, and these groups, in need of training and materiel, would look to the USSR, China and Cuba who were happy to help if the rebels/terrorists/freedom fighters could help make socialism global.
  - legitster 5y ago
    Also, one of the events on this list (The CIA's protection of "Baby Doc" Duvalier) was in no small due to the US's interest in defending off Cuban attempts at invading Haiti.
  - whydoibother 5y ago
    > 4,000 troops to Syria to fight against Israel in the Yom Kippur war Supporting Arabs retaliating against an illegal land grab by Israel. >They also probably didn't send troops into Somalia Helping Ethiopia defend itself against aggression from Somalia, the issue of which was caused by western meddling and colonialism. >nor support the MIR and FPMR to destabilize Chile. Supporting forces revolting against the horrible Pinochet dictatorship. Really, why list any of this when we are talking about unwanted CIA intervention, which usually backed murderous right wingers? Cuba's interventions were at least battling western imperialism and had the support of part of the local populations and not just the rich land owners.
    - cholantesh 5y ago
      Most of HN's userbase will offer the same asinine responses to questions like that: "because western imperialism/protecting the interests of rich land owners is good", "because the alternative is worse, just trust me bro", or "because the local population doesn't know what's good for them and/or are/were brainwashed"
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    Fidel Castro urged Russia to nuke the US during the Cuban Missile Crisis. http://www.errolmorris.com/film/fow_transcript.html http://www.errolmorris.com/film/fow_transcript.html >"Mr. President, I have three questions to you. Number one: did you know the nuclear warheads were there? Number two: if you did, would you have recommended to Khrushchev in the face of an U.S. attack that he use them? Number three: if he had used them, what would have happened to Cuba?" He said, "Number one, I knew they were there. Number two, I would not have recommended to Khrushchev, I did recommend to Khrushchev that they be used. Number three, 'What would have happened to Cuba?' It would have been totally destroyed." That's how close we were. EM: And he was willing to accept that? Yes, and he went on to say: "Mr. McNamara, if you and President Kennedy had been in a similar situation, that's what you would have done." I said, "Mr. President, I hope to God we would not have done it. Pull the temple down on our heads? My God!"
  - refurb 5y ago
    Have you not heard of Cuba’s role in Angola? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_intervention_in_Angola https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_intervention_in_Angola
    - cholantesh 5y ago
      Pretty sure they're being sarcastic, but anyway, I wouldn't call that anywhere near comparable.
- johnknowles 5y ago
  Not every country has yielded control of their top-level of government to their intelligence wing(Bushes, Clinton, Obama and their teams all have ties), nor do other countries have the operational resources to conduct as far-reaching activities as the US. No other country purposefully develops the types of technologies and techniques that we engage with to monitor and affect global power structures. No other country develops propaganda networks (Radio Free ___) like we do, in order to corrode the trust of non-US citizens towards their governments. We literally have to invent stories of "Russian hacking" and "Russian interference" to try and conjure up some parity. Don't try and make false equations. We are not like the world. We may possess the same apparatuses, but we use them as the devil would.
  - hpoe 5y ago
    Couple of points you say "no other country" but Russia and China are definitely engaged in both. Quite frankly it's probably only a matter of time until India develops them as well. The fact of the matter is all our history, doctrine, tactics, and studying come from living in a bi-polar world. We aren't living in the 1940's or the Cold War, we are living in the early 1900's and we need to start studying that time to understand how to navigate and succeed in a multi-polar world (Russia, China, US, India?), or we will be fighting a trench war, while the enemy comes in with tanks and machine guns.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      As far as I know both the MSS and the FSB are pretty solidly subordinate to the rest of their government. The US is not playing to suceed in a multipolar world. The US is playing to maintain hegemony, ie, a monopolar world. All US strategy I've seen so far, especially economic, is focused on creating two spheres of power with the US being at the helm of the dominant one.
      - jolux 5y ago
        What makes you think the CIA isn’t subordinate to the rest of the government? And moreover, what does being subordinate to the government mean when that government is a dictatorship?
StreamBright 5y ago
And surprisingly few people are aware. They chose to ignore or simply does not at all.
justin66 5y ago
> We (Americans) have been living in lies, living in shadows, living in death. There is no tangible difference between the acronyms USA and CIA. We have been sold to the devil, and we've made him our master. At night, the ice weasels come.
- luckyorlame 5y ago
  but we have cookies
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
The GAO not being able to audit the CIA != CIA currently committing atrocities. Your last sentence is also needlessly inflammatory.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  The GAO being unable to audit the CIA, and the CIA still having the same incentives and structure as during an uninterrupted 60+ year spree of committing atrocities almost non-stop is a very good indicator that yes, they are still committing atrocities. Which ones, we couldn't tell, that's kind of the point of the CIA. But in this case, the incentives are the same, the structure is the same, the unaccountability is the same, so past behaviour is a good predictor of future behaviour.
- johnknowles 5y ago
  Yes, I'm sure the fact that they are denying any public oversight wouldn't suggest any nefarious activities. Obviously it is not directly equatable, but to dismiss their history and pattern of actions as not continuing into the present day is ridiculous, frankly. To say that I'm being "needlessly" inflammatory. Are you kidding me? The CIA has murdered and lied with reckless abandon for almost a century. They murdered at least one US president (JFK), and have controlled more (HW, Clinton,..). The CIA has infiltrations in major media, in our news, in our bestselling novels, the top tv shows and movies, the celebrity culture. Their shape on the world is immense, and immensely evil. So I'm sorry if that is too far for you, but its not even close to far enough to account for the depths of darkness to the CIA.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Der_Einzige 5y ago
  Written like a true spook!

zepto 5y ago

> There is no tangible difference between the acronyms USA and CIA. We have been sold to the devil, and we've made him our master. What are you talking about? Every country has spy agencies and almost every country conducts covert operations.

birdyrooster 5y ago
I’m thinking that spy organizations should still have accountability when they fuck up which ultimately could be complete reorganization.
mc32 5y ago
No, Cuba never intervened in the politics of other countries or engaged in assassination in other countries or sent mercenaries to other countries or exported their ideology to other countries. Only bad countries did that. That's right Cuba did not send 4,000 troops to Syria to fight against Israel in the Yom Kippur war. They also probably didn't send troops into Somalia nor support the MIR and FPMR to destabilize Chile.
- alrs 5y ago
  Well, kinda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_intervention_in_Angola https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_intervention_in_Angola
  - Der_Einzige 5y ago
    It's not even well kinda, Cuba absolutely did intervene heavily in Africa. The stereotype of some old south African mercenary that loves to kill communists is directly as a result of this war.
    - alienthrowaway 5y ago
      > It's not even well kinda, Cuba absolutely did intervene heavily in Africa. As did the US - the CIA was instrumental in the arrest of Nelson Mandela while he was on the lam. A number of Vietnam vets went on to "fight communism" in African wars of independence. African decolonisation and the cold war was a complex mix.On one side, you had a white settler minority ruling class, ostensibly on the side of Capitalism and western values. On the other side, you had the majority agitating for full democracy with voting rights extended beyond the minority, but found no help from the west when they requested it. The same story played out in multiple countries, including Vietnam: they'd be rebuffed by the west, and these groups, in need of training and materiel, would look to the USSR, China and Cuba who were happy to help if the rebels/terrorists/freedom fighters could help make socialism global.
- legitster 5y ago
  Also, one of the events on this list (The CIA's protection of "Baby Doc" Duvalier) was in no small due to the US's interest in defending off Cuban attempts at invading Haiti.
- whydoibother 5y ago
  > 4,000 troops to Syria to fight against Israel in the Yom Kippur war Supporting Arabs retaliating against an illegal land grab by Israel. >They also probably didn't send troops into Somalia Helping Ethiopia defend itself against aggression from Somalia, the issue of which was caused by western meddling and colonialism. >nor support the MIR and FPMR to destabilize Chile. Supporting forces revolting against the horrible Pinochet dictatorship. Really, why list any of this when we are talking about unwanted CIA intervention, which usually backed murderous right wingers? Cuba's interventions were at least battling western imperialism and had the support of part of the local populations and not just the rich land owners.
  - cholantesh 5y ago
    Most of HN's userbase will offer the same asinine responses to questions like that: "because western imperialism/protecting the interests of rich land owners is good", "because the alternative is worse, just trust me bro", or "because the local population doesn't know what's good for them and/or are/were brainwashed"
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  Fidel Castro urged Russia to nuke the US during the Cuban Missile Crisis. http://www.errolmorris.com/film/fow_transcript.html http://www.errolmorris.com/film/fow_transcript.html >"Mr. President, I have three questions to you. Number one: did you know the nuclear warheads were there? Number two: if you did, would you have recommended to Khrushchev in the face of an U.S. attack that he use them? Number three: if he had used them, what would have happened to Cuba?" He said, "Number one, I knew they were there. Number two, I would not have recommended to Khrushchev, I did recommend to Khrushchev that they be used. Number three, 'What would have happened to Cuba?' It would have been totally destroyed." That's how close we were. EM: And he was willing to accept that? Yes, and he went on to say: "Mr. McNamara, if you and President Kennedy had been in a similar situation, that's what you would have done." I said, "Mr. President, I hope to God we would not have done it. Pull the temple down on our heads? My God!"
- refurb 5y ago
  Have you not heard of Cuba’s role in Angola? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_intervention_in_Angola https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_intervention_in_Angola
  - cholantesh 5y ago
    Pretty sure they're being sarcastic, but anyway, I wouldn't call that anywhere near comparable.
johnknowles 5y ago
Not every country has yielded control of their top-level of government to their intelligence wing(Bushes, Clinton, Obama and their teams all have ties), nor do other countries have the operational resources to conduct as far-reaching activities as the US. No other country purposefully develops the types of technologies and techniques that we engage with to monitor and affect global power structures. No other country develops propaganda networks (Radio Free ___) like we do, in order to corrode the trust of non-US citizens towards their governments. We literally have to invent stories of "Russian hacking" and "Russian interference" to try and conjure up some parity. Don't try and make false equations. We are not like the world. We may possess the same apparatuses, but we use them as the devil would.
- hpoe 5y ago
  Couple of points you say "no other country" but Russia and China are definitely engaged in both. Quite frankly it's probably only a matter of time until India develops them as well. The fact of the matter is all our history, doctrine, tactics, and studying come from living in a bi-polar world. We aren't living in the 1940's or the Cold War, we are living in the early 1900's and we need to start studying that time to understand how to navigate and succeed in a multi-polar world (Russia, China, US, India?), or we will be fighting a trench war, while the enemy comes in with tanks and machine guns.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    As far as I know both the MSS and the FSB are pretty solidly subordinate to the rest of their government. The US is not playing to suceed in a multipolar world. The US is playing to maintain hegemony, ie, a monopolar world. All US strategy I've seen so far, especially economic, is focused on creating two spheres of power with the US being at the helm of the dominant one.
    - jolux 5y ago
      What makes you think the CIA isn’t subordinate to the rest of the government? And moreover, what does being subordinate to the government mean when that government is a dictatorship?

StreamBright 5y ago

And surprisingly few people are aware. They chose to ignore or simply does not at all.

justin66 5y ago

> We (Americans) have been living in lies, living in shadows, living in death. There is no tangible difference between the acronyms USA and CIA. We have been sold to the devil, and we've made him our master. At night, the ice weasels come.

luckyorlame 5y ago
but we have cookies

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

The GAO not being able to audit the CIA != CIA currently committing atrocities. Your last sentence is also needlessly inflammatory.

sudosysgen 5y ago
The GAO being unable to audit the CIA, and the CIA still having the same incentives and structure as during an uninterrupted 60+ year spree of committing atrocities almost non-stop is a very good indicator that yes, they are still committing atrocities. Which ones, we couldn't tell, that's kind of the point of the CIA. But in this case, the incentives are the same, the structure is the same, the unaccountability is the same, so past behaviour is a good predictor of future behaviour.
johnknowles 5y ago
Yes, I'm sure the fact that they are denying any public oversight wouldn't suggest any nefarious activities. Obviously it is not directly equatable, but to dismiss their history and pattern of actions as not continuing into the present day is ridiculous, frankly. To say that I'm being "needlessly" inflammatory. Are you kidding me? The CIA has murdered and lied with reckless abandon for almost a century. They murdered at least one US president (JFK), and have controlled more (HW, Clinton,..). The CIA has infiltrations in major media, in our news, in our bestselling novels, the top tv shows and movies, the celebrity culture. Their shape on the world is immense, and immensely evil. So I'm sorry if that is too far for you, but its not even close to far enough to account for the depths of darkness to the CIA.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Der_Einzige 5y ago
Written like a true spook!