4 ms·

And just to add to this, from a certain level (revenue) that's not that high (and depends on idividual states) you need a presence (VAT registration) and a busi

And just to add to this, from a certain level (revenue) that's not that high (and depends on idividual states) you need a presence (VAT registration) and a business bank account in the country you're selling your services/goods in, even if you're not actually located there. E.g. a medium sized online shop based in the Czech Republic that is shipping to Hungary. Now imagine this if you're shipping to many EU states... not great.

eptcyka 5y ago
I don't believe that's the case.
stefanfisk 5y ago
none of this is true.
emj 5y ago
Might have been true at some point, but nowdays even smaller payments are easy to send between EU banks. VAT payment is done in your home country, and you can deduct the VAT. The social aspect is harder; the amount of work to get a consistent revenue stream from another EU country can be enormous compared to doing buisness in another city in your own country. There are people who specialize in sales between EU states, but for a small team without capital it was hard. That said most of the 100+ tech companies I know of have offices around EU to get talent from other countries.
- pyb 5y ago
  This is inaccurate for VAT.
  - emj 5y ago
    That's how our accountant handles it I'm no expert so I guess there is devils in the details. My view is that it's getting a lot easier, even if the progress is slow.
- jbverschoor 5y ago
  Plain incorrect for consumer VAT. You have to charge VAT based on the origin of your customer. Different percentages, different ways to figure out the origin of your customer. For businesses you can do reverse VAT, and you’ll have to ask and check that. Bank payments are easy yes, but credit cards are not ubiquitous, online payments are different in all countries, direct debit is not always supported across countries.
  - boruto 5y ago
    Can attest to this. We maintain different sales channels for all EU countries.
  - jlokier 5y ago
    When trading between EU countries, although you have to calculate and charge VAT based on the location of your consumer customers, if your business only does a small amount[1] of goods trade with various EU countries, or if it's supplying services[2], or if it's supplying online services[3], or if it's supplying goods or services to other businesses[4], it isn't necessary to have a company presence in each individual country. So for businesses expanding into new EU countries it's not as onerous as needing a local presence would be. (Disclaimer: I'm not an accountant and may be wrong. I'll take it on the chin if so. This is just my understanding, having needed to look this stuff up occasionally.) [1] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-border-vat/index_en.htm#withintheeusellgoodsfinalconsumer-1 https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-bor... [2] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-border-vat/index_en.htm#withintheeusellservicesfinalconsumer https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-bor... [3] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-digital-services-moss-scheme/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-digit... [4] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-border-vat/index_en.htm#withintheeusellgoodsanotherbusiness-1 https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-bor...
  - emj 5y ago
    I do not see these things as a big problem though, payments are is a service we buy for our own country as well. The same service provider doesn't work everywhere but for us that is not a problem.
vetinari 5y ago
> you need a presence (VAT registration) and a business bank account in the country you're selling your services/goods in, even if you're not actually located there. E.g. a medium sized online shop based in the Czech Republic that is shipping to Hungary. Alza (CZ) is slightly bigger than a medium sized online shop and they are using CZ VAT ID intentionally for intracomunitary B2B sales, even though they do have physical presence in other countries.
lamnk 5y ago
this is wrong, at least according to my experience living in Germany 10 years ago

eptcyka 5y ago

I don't believe that's the case.

stefanfisk 5y ago

none of this is true.

emj 5y ago

Might have been true at some point, but nowdays even smaller payments are easy to send between EU banks. VAT payment is done in your home country, and you can deduct the VAT. The social aspect is harder; the amount of work to get a consistent revenue stream from another EU country can be enormous compared to doing buisness in another city in your own country. There are people who specialize in sales between EU states, but for a small team without capital it was hard. That said most of the 100+ tech companies I know of have offices around EU to get talent from other countries.

pyb 5y ago
This is inaccurate for VAT.
- emj 5y ago
  That's how our accountant handles it I'm no expert so I guess there is devils in the details. My view is that it's getting a lot easier, even if the progress is slow.
jbverschoor 5y ago
Plain incorrect for consumer VAT. You have to charge VAT based on the origin of your customer. Different percentages, different ways to figure out the origin of your customer. For businesses you can do reverse VAT, and you’ll have to ask and check that. Bank payments are easy yes, but credit cards are not ubiquitous, online payments are different in all countries, direct debit is not always supported across countries.
- boruto 5y ago
  Can attest to this. We maintain different sales channels for all EU countries.
- jlokier 5y ago
  When trading between EU countries, although you have to calculate and charge VAT based on the location of your consumer customers, if your business only does a small amount[1] of goods trade with various EU countries, or if it's supplying services[2], or if it's supplying online services[3], or if it's supplying goods or services to other businesses[4], it isn't necessary to have a company presence in each individual country. So for businesses expanding into new EU countries it's not as onerous as needing a local presence would be. (Disclaimer: I'm not an accountant and may be wrong. I'll take it on the chin if so. This is just my understanding, having needed to look this stuff up occasionally.) [1] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-border-vat/index_en.htm#withintheeusellgoodsfinalconsumer-1 https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-bor... [2] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-border-vat/index_en.htm#withintheeusellservicesfinalconsumer https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-bor... [3] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-digital-services-moss-scheme/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-digit... [4] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-border-vat/index_en.htm#withintheeusellgoodsanotherbusiness-1 https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/cross-bor...
- emj 5y ago
  I do not see these things as a big problem though, payments are is a service we buy for our own country as well. The same service provider doesn't work everywhere but for us that is not a problem.

vetinari 5y ago

> you need a presence (VAT registration) and a business bank account in the country you're selling your services/goods in, even if you're not actually located there. E.g. a medium sized online shop based in the Czech Republic that is shipping to Hungary. Alza (CZ) is slightly bigger than a medium sized online shop and they are using CZ VAT ID intentionally for intracomunitary B2B sales, even though they do have physical presence in other countries.

lamnk 5y ago

this is wrong, at least according to my experience living in Germany 10 years ago