6 ms·

You should look into an alternative then. Linux is quite beginner friendly these days and with Wine you can emulate pretty much any Windows application if that'

by bsd44 5y ago

You should look into an alternative then. Linux is quite beginner friendly these days and with Wine you can emulate pretty much any Windows application if that's what's holding you back from switching. If not then MacOS is the way to go. If you really want to go "back" then you should have a look at ReactOS which is a sort of an open-source Windows clone. I can't comment on recent Windows-related event as XP was the last version of Windows that I used and even back then I wasn't happy about all the "spyware" that came with it. I can only imagine it's gotten worse since then.

azinman2 5y ago
> Wine you can emulate pretty much any Windows application if that's what's holding you back from switching. That’s just not true. I wish it were but much of the real pro software you can’t get in Linux doesn’t worn.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  Yes, please do not make such claims without actually knowing. Just because some games are running more or less stable, doesn't mean you can run complex software with it.
  - bsd44 5y ago
    That's a very bold assumption to make. I said "pretty much any" not "every" since we're talking about regular usage of a computer. OP didn't mention anything in particular so I suggested three alternatives. Before you start calling people out you should first define what "complex" is.
    - azinman2 5y ago
      PowerPoint 2016 is listed as “garbage” in winehq, and that’s the latest version listed. Recent Photoshop is either silver or garbage depending on the version. Premiere is listed as garbage for all versions. Newest iTunes is bronze. I’m not even trying to find bad examples. I’m just poking around in their public db for popular software that doesn’t exist in Linux. I’ve run into this every time I try to use wine for real — it’s never worked well. It’s also a really hard problem! You basically need to re-write Windows and all of it’s related components, which one of the worlds biggest companies has spent decades on and however many billions of dollars. But it’s not like “pretty much any” windows software will run well. It’s quite selective outside of games.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        This. So claiming "pretty much any" windows software runs in wine, is the "very bold assumption", not backed up by reality. Because yeah, there is a lot of windows software somewhat running ... but somewhat running is not enough, when you want to work with it.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
I remember being angry about “activation.” sigh, the good old days.
bgeeek 5y ago
Linux was quite beginner friendly twenty plus years ago, IME. Remember Mandrake Linux? Then you had Ubuntu ten years ago! It's had enough time. The one thing that used to repeatedly make me chuckle was the "This will be the year of the Linux desktop" stories, which seemed to appear almost yearly! :)
eloff 5y ago
One can complain about Windows, but at the end of the day I have way more issues with desktop Linux (which I use principally.) I find myself in an awkward situation where I don't like any of the three major desktop operating systems for different reasons. It's more a matter of picking the one that's less bad. Currently for me that's Linux for work, Windows for games, and Mac for a laptop. I need a new laptop next year. I'll probably go for a Windows laptop where I can dual boot Linux.
- criddell 5y ago
  I've been using Linux on-and-off since the fall of 1993 and I've learned that the best way to use Linux is to pick the most popular distribution and then do as little customization as possible. You still will probably have to wipe and reinstall from scratch every five years, but that's not a Linux-only problem.
  - eloff 5y ago
    That's also been my strategy. I use Ubuntu and I don't mess with the configuration. Printers, scanners, nvidia graphics cards, dual monitors have all been a huge source of issues for me. Then a lot of stuff is just glitchy and fixing it is a pain. For some reason QT from apt was completely messed up for me, so I had to compile and install it myself, which was non trivial.
    - criddell 5y ago
      My non-customization strategy extends to basically not connecting printers and scanners, not using anything other than basic video modes, and I've never even tried multi-monitor setups.
      - eloff 5y ago
        That's definitely safer based on my experience.
- amatecha 5y ago
prometheus76 5y ago
Yeah until an update to the graphics driver, followed by a reboot, takes you to a black screen and nothing happens. So you use another computer to look online and there are five different solutions for five slightly different versions of different linux distributions, but none of them are the version you have and none of them work for your version. This all happened six months ago, which is the most recent attempt at using the "now user-friendly version" of linux that stretches back 20 years.
- bsd44 5y ago
  I've been using various Linux and BSD flavours as my main desktop OS and also at work for over 15 years now and never had any major issue such as the one you describe. So now what are we going to do? How do we decide who is right and who is wrong? I don't understand these types of comments, if an alternative doesn't work for you then you keep using what you were in the first place. There's no problem here. What exactly are you suggesting, that you experienced a problem so it won't work for anyone else?
  - hughrr 5y ago
    The original poster is correct. For some configurations Linux is a complete shit show of pain. And it is not stable over time. I had a nicely working T495 which is apparently officially supported by Ubuntu. Worked wonderfully for ages. Then about 3 months ago a kernel update broke it. It works for about ten minutes then the GPU driver craps itself.
  - wruza 5y ago
    My experience was the same until I started to use off-the-shelf or simply “consumer top” hardware, then it changed. It all shines and then you get a recent laptop or a mobo that aren’t a sped up version of IBM PC/AT or 8259. I also managed a small park of BSD and Linux boxes at work for a while. What exactly are you suggesting, that you experienced a problem so it won't work for anyone else? People can give it a try, but shouldn’t expect that it’s all okay once it shows a wallpaper. Committing to something like OS requires a prior knowledge of operational risks. I think this. — ReactOS in a nutshell: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U6d7E1uKSmg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U6d7E1uKSmg They obviously make fun of it too shamelessly, but suggesting to use it… is it another level of trolling (no offense)?
jnxx 5y ago
> Linux is quite beginner friendly these days Not only that - Linux as a standard Debian or Ubuntu system did also become astonishingly beginner-friendly for people who do not like to tinker with computers, and just use them to read mail, edit documents, and browse the web. It's literally setting up once, send them the laptop, it works for five years or more, without any servicing.
tored 5y ago
Even if Windows 10 has problems with scattered settings, old style programs vs new style apps, default apps and start menu annoyances, Linux Desktop annoyances are on a completely different level. The huge Gnome 3 schism, that lead to many different Gnome forks. And consequently GTK is more of a Gnome 3 toolkit rather than a universal toolkit, which will affect non-gnome GTK apps. And if you manage to pick a desktop, hopefully by avoiding Gnome 3 because it constantly changes workflow and uses buggy JavaScript plugins, you realize that you will probably have Gnome 3 installed anyway because apps or the distro having dependencies to Gnome, if you don’t want to settle for old forks of those apps with less features. And if you didn’t pick Gnome (or KDE) it is a good idea to install a compositor if you don’t like software rendered desktop like the good old Windows 9x days. Be sure to turn the compositor off if you plan to play any games, especially if you thinking about playing on Wine. Or accept to always play in full screen. This will of course annoy you every time you need to look up something online. If your game doesn’t run well, just add this unknown PPA that will installs nightly compiled graphics libraries (who wouldn’t?). And if your computer freezes mid game, sorry you didn’t change the virtual memory size before because it is a fixed size. Tough luck. And then of course the entire X vs Wayland situation.
- Macha 5y ago
  > And if you didn’t pick Gnome (or KDE) it is a good idea to install a compositor if you don’t like software rendered desktop like the good old Windows 9x days. So I haven't gone out of the way to install a compositor (are you talking a wayland compositor, or the older Compiz type stuff)? But I have 2x1440p and 1x1080p and I've not noticed any perf issues, which I assume is what you're highlighting as the downside? And I use all three major desktop OSes daily, so it's not that there's some blazing fast responsiveness to be had on Windows or OS X I'm unaware of. > If your game doesn’t run well, just add this unknown PPA that will installs nightly compiled graphics libraries (who wouldn’t?). This feels like five years out of date. Just pick a compatibility tool dropdown in Steam for most people. Lutris if you want something open source. > And if your computer freezes mid game, sorry you didn’t change the virtual memory size before because it is a fixed size. Tough luck. I haven't had a swap partition in years, and not once has it lead to a game crash.
artificialLimbs 5y ago
It’s easier to complain about and keep using Windows than to retrain, support, and make all programs compatible for >500 people, unfortunately.

by bsd44 5y ago

azinman2 5y ago

> Wine you can emulate pretty much any Windows application if that's what's holding you back from switching. That’s just not true. I wish it were but much of the real pro software you can’t get in Linux doesn’t worn.

hutzlibu 5y ago
Yes, please do not make such claims without actually knowing. Just because some games are running more or less stable, doesn't mean you can run complex software with it.
- bsd44 5y ago
  That's a very bold assumption to make. I said "pretty much any" not "every" since we're talking about regular usage of a computer. OP didn't mention anything in particular so I suggested three alternatives. Before you start calling people out you should first define what "complex" is.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    PowerPoint 2016 is listed as “garbage” in winehq, and that’s the latest version listed. Recent Photoshop is either silver or garbage depending on the version. Premiere is listed as garbage for all versions. Newest iTunes is bronze. I’m not even trying to find bad examples. I’m just poking around in their public db for popular software that doesn’t exist in Linux. I’ve run into this every time I try to use wine for real — it’s never worked well. It’s also a really hard problem! You basically need to re-write Windows and all of it’s related components, which one of the worlds biggest companies has spent decades on and however many billions of dollars. But it’s not like “pretty much any” windows software will run well. It’s quite selective outside of games.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      This. So claiming "pretty much any" windows software runs in wine, is the "very bold assumption", not backed up by reality. Because yeah, there is a lot of windows software somewhat running ... but somewhat running is not enough, when you want to work with it.

mixmastamyk 5y ago

I remember being angry about “activation.” sigh, the good old days.

bgeeek 5y ago

Linux was quite beginner friendly twenty plus years ago, IME. Remember Mandrake Linux? Then you had Ubuntu ten years ago! It's had enough time. The one thing that used to repeatedly make me chuckle was the "This will be the year of the Linux desktop" stories, which seemed to appear almost yearly! :)

eloff 5y ago

One can complain about Windows, but at the end of the day I have way more issues with desktop Linux (which I use principally.) I find myself in an awkward situation where I don't like any of the three major desktop operating systems for different reasons. It's more a matter of picking the one that's less bad. Currently for me that's Linux for work, Windows for games, and Mac for a laptop. I need a new laptop next year. I'll probably go for a Windows laptop where I can dual boot Linux.

criddell 5y ago
I've been using Linux on-and-off since the fall of 1993 and I've learned that the best way to use Linux is to pick the most popular distribution and then do as little customization as possible. You still will probably have to wipe and reinstall from scratch every five years, but that's not a Linux-only problem.
- eloff 5y ago
  That's also been my strategy. I use Ubuntu and I don't mess with the configuration. Printers, scanners, nvidia graphics cards, dual monitors have all been a huge source of issues for me. Then a lot of stuff is just glitchy and fixing it is a pain. For some reason QT from apt was completely messed up for me, so I had to compile and install it myself, which was non trivial.
  - criddell 5y ago
    My non-customization strategy extends to basically not connecting printers and scanners, not using anything other than basic video modes, and I've never even tried multi-monitor setups.
    - eloff 5y ago
      That's definitely safer based on my experience.
amatecha 5y ago

prometheus76 5y ago

Yeah until an update to the graphics driver, followed by a reboot, takes you to a black screen and nothing happens. So you use another computer to look online and there are five different solutions for five slightly different versions of different linux distributions, but none of them are the version you have and none of them work for your version. This all happened six months ago, which is the most recent attempt at using the "now user-friendly version" of linux that stretches back 20 years.

bsd44 5y ago
I've been using various Linux and BSD flavours as my main desktop OS and also at work for over 15 years now and never had any major issue such as the one you describe. So now what are we going to do? How do we decide who is right and who is wrong? I don't understand these types of comments, if an alternative doesn't work for you then you keep using what you were in the first place. There's no problem here. What exactly are you suggesting, that you experienced a problem so it won't work for anyone else?
- hughrr 5y ago
  The original poster is correct. For some configurations Linux is a complete shit show of pain. And it is not stable over time. I had a nicely working T495 which is apparently officially supported by Ubuntu. Worked wonderfully for ages. Then about 3 months ago a kernel update broke it. It works for about ten minutes then the GPU driver craps itself.
- wruza 5y ago
  My experience was the same until I started to use off-the-shelf or simply “consumer top” hardware, then it changed. It all shines and then you get a recent laptop or a mobo that aren’t a sped up version of IBM PC/AT or 8259. I also managed a small park of BSD and Linux boxes at work for a while. What exactly are you suggesting, that you experienced a problem so it won't work for anyone else? People can give it a try, but shouldn’t expect that it’s all okay once it shows a wallpaper. Committing to something like OS requires a prior knowledge of operational risks. I think this. — ReactOS in a nutshell: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U6d7E1uKSmg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U6d7E1uKSmg They obviously make fun of it too shamelessly, but suggesting to use it… is it another level of trolling (no offense)?

jnxx 5y ago

> Linux is quite beginner friendly these days Not only that - Linux as a standard Debian or Ubuntu system did also become astonishingly beginner-friendly for people who do not like to tinker with computers, and just use them to read mail, edit documents, and browse the web. It's literally setting up once, send them the laptop, it works for five years or more, without any servicing.

tored 5y ago

Even if Windows 10 has problems with scattered settings, old style programs vs new style apps, default apps and start menu annoyances, Linux Desktop annoyances are on a completely different level. The huge Gnome 3 schism, that lead to many different Gnome forks. And consequently GTK is more of a Gnome 3 toolkit rather than a universal toolkit, which will affect non-gnome GTK apps. And if you manage to pick a desktop, hopefully by avoiding Gnome 3 because it constantly changes workflow and uses buggy JavaScript plugins, you realize that you will probably have Gnome 3 installed anyway because apps or the distro having dependencies to Gnome, if you don’t want to settle for old forks of those apps with less features. And if you didn’t pick Gnome (or KDE) it is a good idea to install a compositor if you don’t like software rendered desktop like the good old Windows 9x days. Be sure to turn the compositor off if you plan to play any games, especially if you thinking about playing on Wine. Or accept to always play in full screen. This will of course annoy you every time you need to look up something online. If your game doesn’t run well, just add this unknown PPA that will installs nightly compiled graphics libraries (who wouldn’t?). And if your computer freezes mid game, sorry you didn’t change the virtual memory size before because it is a fixed size. Tough luck. And then of course the entire X vs Wayland situation.

Macha 5y ago
> And if you didn’t pick Gnome (or KDE) it is a good idea to install a compositor if you don’t like software rendered desktop like the good old Windows 9x days. So I haven't gone out of the way to install a compositor (are you talking a wayland compositor, or the older Compiz type stuff)? But I have 2x1440p and 1x1080p and I've not noticed any perf issues, which I assume is what you're highlighting as the downside? And I use all three major desktop OSes daily, so it's not that there's some blazing fast responsiveness to be had on Windows or OS X I'm unaware of. > If your game doesn’t run well, just add this unknown PPA that will installs nightly compiled graphics libraries (who wouldn’t?). This feels like five years out of date. Just pick a compatibility tool dropdown in Steam for most people. Lutris if you want something open source. > And if your computer freezes mid game, sorry you didn’t change the virtual memory size before because it is a fixed size. Tough luck. I haven't had a swap partition in years, and not once has it lead to a game crash.

artificialLimbs 5y ago

It’s easier to complain about and keep using Windows than to retrain, support, and make all programs compatible for >500 people, unfortunately.