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>The sooner we recognize that, and stop treating loved ones who have adopted conspiratorial beliefs as lost causes, the better we may be at curbing the beliefs

>The sooner we recognize that, and stop treating loved ones who have adopted conspiratorial beliefs as lost causes, the better we may be at curbing the beliefs that threaten our democracy and public health. The problem is that people tend to dig in like ticks when presented with facts contrary to their closely held conspiracy theories. They move the goal posts and re-interpret/mis-interpret statements over and over to keep their faulty beliefs. It's so frustrating to deal with as to make it not even worth it.

jp555 5y ago
If you think facts persuade people then you do not understand how people work. That delusion is what is frustrating you. Facts require three things: - observation (the temperature is 15°C), - omission (the temp outside my home, omitting the rest of the universe), and - trust (my thermometer is probably working). Almost all disagreement about Facts is really about what we’re omitting & what we trust, not the observation.
SonicScrub 5y ago
As the quote goes: "you cannot reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into." Attacking conspiracy theories with facts will not work, and can often entrench the beliefs further into someone. Not giving up on our loved ones who've fallen into questionable beliefs doesn't mean we should assault them with a torrent of facts. Rather we should continue to support the other aspects of their lives, and maybe gently nudge them towards more reputable sources. Conspiratorial thinking is something that they will have to lift themselves up from for it to stick.
- hindsightbias 5y ago
  The only realistic solution is to redirect their focus to things less destructive. Why I think UFOs are the hot thing again now. Truthers didn’t just wake up one day - they moved onto something else.
nathanaldensr 5y ago
Objection, Your Honor! Assumes facts not in evidence: that these beliefs "threaten our democracy and public health." These back-handed "Oh I wish those people would let us save them from that which they do not understand" only gives actual evidence that feeds the theories. Stop treating people like little children, be more scientific--actually scientific, not "the science is settled" scientific--and you may start to see things change.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  My mom believes Obama to be a Muslim (as an "aging" conspiracy theory, this is hopefully less political than current ones). She's never been good with schedules and doesn't know how to send an email-attachment, but she's not dumb. She's just your stereotypical aging baby boomer who's just retired. Despite her own concerns of mental disease as she ages... I haven't witnessed anything of the sort (Dementia and delusions run on my Dad's side of the family, not my mother's side). Have you ever tried to talk a parent out of such a conspiracy theory? Because I have. Its impossible to convince them that Obama is a Christian, despite photographic evidence or whatever. Its ultimately just a thing that I accept about my mom. She believes in that conspiracy theory (Obama is a Muslim), and there's nothing I can do to change it. Its not like my mom pulls the "parent" card out on me either. As far as I can tell, we discussed things as equal adults, but never came to an agreement over that particular factoid. If Obama was appearing in church, its only to keep up with the Presidential expectations to look Christian while in office (at least, in her mind). If he's got a birth certificate from Hawaii, it was doctored. Mainstream Media reporting on Obama's appearances in Church are unreliable and biased. Obama is faking it when he prays in public. Etc. etc. There's always a response, each one more ludicrous than the last. Its turtles all the way down. They believe in conspiracy theories that support other conspiracy theories in a "stable" footing. Their entire mindset is built around the conspiracy, and its very difficult to budge them from it. She's surrounded by other people she trusts more than me on this issue. She listens to her pastor, her fellow church members more so than me. (Its just me vs many people. So from a social perspective, I'm coming in on the disadvantage because her ENTIRE church group believes in this crap). My father (her husband) doesn't seem to care about changing her opinion either, much like myself (its definitely not worth the effort). So we give up. Its a point of stress and ultimately doesn't matter anymore. So why bother correcting it now? Obama is out of office and can't be elected again, and its not like my mom is a Q (or otherwise a "current" conspiracy theorist who is actually dangerous). She seemed to be a COVID19 denier initially, but when members of her church group started dying, that quickly reversed course on its own. Some conspiracies are harder to keep than others. So the truth comes out when its really important and personal.
diveandfight 5y ago
Is it really useful to think of these beliefs as being formed from facts? Or are these beliefs really more a by-product of certain moral positions people take? "Social intuitionism proposes four main claims about moral positions, namely that they are (1) primarily intuitive ("intuitions come first"), (2) rationalized, justified, or otherwise explained after the fact, (3) taken mainly to influence other people, and are (4) often influenced and sometimes changed by discussing such positions with others." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_intuitionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_intuitionism

jp555 5y ago

If you think facts persuade people then you do not understand how people work. That delusion is what is frustrating you. Facts require three things: - observation (the temperature is 15°C), - omission (the temp outside my home, omitting the rest of the universe), and - trust (my thermometer is probably working). Almost all disagreement about Facts is really about what we’re omitting & what we trust, not the observation.

SonicScrub 5y ago

As the quote goes: "you cannot reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into." Attacking conspiracy theories with facts will not work, and can often entrench the beliefs further into someone. Not giving up on our loved ones who've fallen into questionable beliefs doesn't mean we should assault them with a torrent of facts. Rather we should continue to support the other aspects of their lives, and maybe gently nudge them towards more reputable sources. Conspiratorial thinking is something that they will have to lift themselves up from for it to stick.

hindsightbias 5y ago
The only realistic solution is to redirect their focus to things less destructive. Why I think UFOs are the hot thing again now. Truthers didn’t just wake up one day - they moved onto something else.

nathanaldensr 5y ago

Objection, Your Honor! Assumes facts not in evidence: that these beliefs "threaten our democracy and public health." These back-handed "Oh I wish those people would let us save them from that which they do not understand" only gives actual evidence that feeds the theories. Stop treating people like little children, be more scientific--actually scientific, not "the science is settled" scientific--and you may start to see things change.

dragontamer 5y ago
My mom believes Obama to be a Muslim (as an "aging" conspiracy theory, this is hopefully less political than current ones). She's never been good with schedules and doesn't know how to send an email-attachment, but she's not dumb. She's just your stereotypical aging baby boomer who's just retired. Despite her own concerns of mental disease as she ages... I haven't witnessed anything of the sort (Dementia and delusions run on my Dad's side of the family, not my mother's side). Have you ever tried to talk a parent out of such a conspiracy theory? Because I have. Its impossible to convince them that Obama is a Christian, despite photographic evidence or whatever. Its ultimately just a thing that I accept about my mom. She believes in that conspiracy theory (Obama is a Muslim), and there's nothing I can do to change it. Its not like my mom pulls the "parent" card out on me either. As far as I can tell, we discussed things as equal adults, but never came to an agreement over that particular factoid. If Obama was appearing in church, its only to keep up with the Presidential expectations to look Christian while in office (at least, in her mind). If he's got a birth certificate from Hawaii, it was doctored. Mainstream Media reporting on Obama's appearances in Church are unreliable and biased. Obama is faking it when he prays in public. Etc. etc. There's always a response, each one more ludicrous than the last. Its turtles all the way down. They believe in conspiracy theories that support other conspiracy theories in a "stable" footing. Their entire mindset is built around the conspiracy, and its very difficult to budge them from it. She's surrounded by other people she trusts more than me on this issue. She listens to her pastor, her fellow church members more so than me. (Its just me vs many people. So from a social perspective, I'm coming in on the disadvantage because her ENTIRE church group believes in this crap). My father (her husband) doesn't seem to care about changing her opinion either, much like myself (its definitely not worth the effort). So we give up. Its a point of stress and ultimately doesn't matter anymore. So why bother correcting it now? Obama is out of office and can't be elected again, and its not like my mom is a Q (or otherwise a "current" conspiracy theorist who is actually dangerous). She seemed to be a COVID19 denier initially, but when members of her church group started dying, that quickly reversed course on its own. Some conspiracies are harder to keep than others. So the truth comes out when its really important and personal.

diveandfight 5y ago

Is it really useful to think of these beliefs as being formed from facts? Or are these beliefs really more a by-product of certain moral positions people take? "Social intuitionism proposes four main claims about moral positions, namely that they are (1) primarily intuitive ("intuitions come first"), (2) rationalized, justified, or otherwise explained after the fact, (3) taken mainly to influence other people, and are (4) often influenced and sometimes changed by discussing such positions with others." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_intuitionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_intuitionism