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If Airbnb actually cared they would have invested in their operations already; Chesky giving "a promise to verify the photographs, amenities, cleanliness, and s

by okprod 5y ago

If Airbnb actually cared they would have invested in their operations already; Chesky giving "a promise to verify the photographs, amenities, cleanliness, and safety of all the listings on Airbnb", which the article notes is underway, is ridiculous -- Shouldn't this be a bare minimum of this type of business before they start operating? Basically what the "safety team" does is how Logan Roy from the show Succession works -- do whatever you want, skirt ethics and laws, and then pay money and have people sign NDAs.

dannyw 5y ago
There's bigger issues IMO, based on the article: * Accepting hosts with prior criminal charges for battery, who then proceeded to sexually assault a guest. * Under-resourcing trust and safety teams until it became such as big problem, the CEO had to step in. * Choosing to lay-off the entire Portland trust and safety team during COVID, telling them to relocate to another country (Canada) during a pandemic (!!) at lower pay, or lose their jobs. I used to work for a 'sharing economy company' (no, not Airbnb, but also not naming names), on what you'd call "trust and safety". I don't feel like we got enough resources. It was less about trust and safety, and it was more about, "How do we make problems disappear?" There were plenty of sensible ideas that would've improved safety for our users, but they were ignored.
- himinlomax 5y ago
  > * Accepting hosts with prior criminal charges for battery, who then proceeded to sexually assault a guest. The article says the offender had been charged but not convicted; what are they supposed to do? Know better than the justice system? And then they'd have complaints that people who have been wrongly accused at some point and found innocent, many of whom are likely to be minorities, are denied business by AirBNB.
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    AirBnB should just implement its own social scoring system. Apply it to everyone so they already have data for future hosts and guests. /s but I kinda want to see such a tech and head-explosions of the announcement.
  - lupire 5y ago
    They could disclose the charges and let guests decide.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Is it really that unreasonable to tell someone they can’t be a host until their violent crime charges are resolved?
    - himinlomax 5y ago
      "Innocent until proven guilty"
      - refurb 5y ago
        AirBnB is not putting these people in prison they just aren’t letting them be hosts. I mean, would you be cool with letting someone charged with a violent crime work at a daycare until found guilty?
        himinlomax 5y ago
        I'm not saying it's not a problem, I'm saying there's no simple and fair solution.
- chanmad29 5y ago
  sounds a lot like how HR works- both as a front and on the inside.
- Der_Einzige 5y ago
  My roommate, who was hired for disaster response at Airbnb at the beginning of covid (January) was thought by us to be un-layoff-able due to her important role. months of her working 12 hour days go by, and she ends up laid off in the mass lay off that Airbnb did around June. I saw how hard she worked. I saw how important her role was, and they threw her aside. AirBnB is a disaster when it comes to anything involving safety, health, or disaster response.
LeifCarrotson 5y ago
The problem is that Airbnb and a ton of other modern high-scale companies is that they only work when they don't require humans on site. It's simply not economically possible to send a human being to an off-site location for 14% of $200. Similarly, if each person on your social network generates $5 in ad revenue per person per year, automatic bans and community moderators are the only way to go, because you can't afford to pay someone to read all of the posts. Or if you have an 800 number, you'd better hope that the robot answering machine can solve almost every problem, because any time even a minimum-wage call center employee has to spend 15 minutes on the phone with a customer one-on-one that customer's account is no longer profitable for the company. As a consumer, I appreciate the low prices and high purchasing power that I currently enjoy - I can get trinkets from distant lands on a whim and have many things done on my behalf without my lifting a finger, hedonistic luxuries that would have been only accessible to a king in centuries past. And obviously, the powerful AI-like corporations that optimize for profit above all else are profiting from the situation. But as a human being it kind of sucks.
- abfan1127 5y ago
  low prices are a certain optimization. Others can optimize for experiences. I personally haven't used AirBNB because I don't like the risks associated with the use of their product. Some people love it.
  - theptip 5y ago
    The free market at its best. You can choose the cheap-but-cuts-corners option, or pay more to get more. Of course, this implicitly depends on informed consumers, so it’s a bit troubling that Airbnb is leaning so heavily on NDA-based settlements. I don’t have a feel for how common that strategy is in competitors, say hotel / VRBO.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      People will definitely pick hotel/hotel chain based on price vs. quality. In the case of AirBnb, while you certainly have some people looking to pick a particular kind of property/experience vs. a hotel, my sense is that most people are going with AirBnB vs. hotel to save money.

by okprod 5y ago

dannyw 5y ago

There's bigger issues IMO, based on the article: * Accepting hosts with prior criminal charges for battery, who then proceeded to sexually assault a guest. * Under-resourcing trust and safety teams until it became such as big problem, the CEO had to step in. * Choosing to lay-off the entire Portland trust and safety team during COVID, telling them to relocate to another country (Canada) during a pandemic (!!) at lower pay, or lose their jobs. I used to work for a 'sharing economy company' (no, not Airbnb, but also not naming names), on what you'd call "trust and safety". I don't feel like we got enough resources. It was less about trust and safety, and it was more about, "How do we make problems disappear?" There were plenty of sensible ideas that would've improved safety for our users, but they were ignored.

himinlomax 5y ago
> * Accepting hosts with prior criminal charges for battery, who then proceeded to sexually assault a guest. The article says the offender had been charged but not convicted; what are they supposed to do? Know better than the justice system? And then they'd have complaints that people who have been wrongly accused at some point and found innocent, many of whom are likely to be minorities, are denied business by AirBNB.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  AirBnB should just implement its own social scoring system. Apply it to everyone so they already have data for future hosts and guests. /s but I kinda want to see such a tech and head-explosions of the announcement.
- lupire 5y ago
  They could disclose the charges and let guests decide.
- refurb 5y ago
  Is it really that unreasonable to tell someone they can’t be a host until their violent crime charges are resolved?
  - himinlomax 5y ago
    "Innocent until proven guilty"
    - refurb 5y ago
      AirBnB is not putting these people in prison they just aren’t letting them be hosts. I mean, would you be cool with letting someone charged with a violent crime work at a daycare until found guilty?
      - himinlomax 5y ago
        I'm not saying it's not a problem, I'm saying there's no simple and fair solution.
chanmad29 5y ago
sounds a lot like how HR works- both as a front and on the inside.
Der_Einzige 5y ago
My roommate, who was hired for disaster response at Airbnb at the beginning of covid (January) was thought by us to be un-layoff-able due to her important role. months of her working 12 hour days go by, and she ends up laid off in the mass lay off that Airbnb did around June. I saw how hard she worked. I saw how important her role was, and they threw her aside. AirBnB is a disaster when it comes to anything involving safety, health, or disaster response.

LeifCarrotson 5y ago

The problem is that Airbnb and a ton of other modern high-scale companies is that they only work when they don't require humans on site. It's simply not economically possible to send a human being to an off-site location for 14% of $200. Similarly, if each person on your social network generates $5 in ad revenue per person per year, automatic bans and community moderators are the only way to go, because you can't afford to pay someone to read all of the posts. Or if you have an 800 number, you'd better hope that the robot answering machine can solve almost every problem, because any time even a minimum-wage call center employee has to spend 15 minutes on the phone with a customer one-on-one that customer's account is no longer profitable for the company. As a consumer, I appreciate the low prices and high purchasing power that I currently enjoy - I can get trinkets from distant lands on a whim and have many things done on my behalf without my lifting a finger, hedonistic luxuries that would have been only accessible to a king in centuries past. And obviously, the powerful AI-like corporations that optimize for profit above all else are profiting from the situation. But as a human being it kind of sucks.

abfan1127 5y ago
low prices are a certain optimization. Others can optimize for experiences. I personally haven't used AirBNB because I don't like the risks associated with the use of their product. Some people love it.
- theptip 5y ago
  The free market at its best. You can choose the cheap-but-cuts-corners option, or pay more to get more. Of course, this implicitly depends on informed consumers, so it’s a bit troubling that Airbnb is leaning so heavily on NDA-based settlements. I don’t have a feel for how common that strategy is in competitors, say hotel / VRBO.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    People will definitely pick hotel/hotel chain based on price vs. quality. In the case of AirBnb, while you certainly have some people looking to pick a particular kind of property/experience vs. a hotel, my sense is that most people are going with AirBnB vs. hotel to save money.