6 ms·

OS stability is not the thing that people are concerned about when criticising Windows 10. What has made me turn away from windows is the complete lack of trust

OS stability is not the thing that people are concerned about when criticising Windows 10. What has made me turn away from windows is the complete lack of trust I have that the OS will respect my privacy.

kathoum 5y ago
This. I switched from 7 to 10 when it was offered. I stayed with 10 for about one year, and I liked it thanks to all the fixes and improvements and despite the occasional quirk. But after one year, I realized my computer didn't feel like it was mine anymore. I jumped to linux and never went back.
- partiallypro 5y ago
  Ubuntu started collecting telemetry in 2018, I don't see how it's invasive at all.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    The difference between invasive and non-invasive telemetry is choice. If you give me the choice to turn it off, there's some sense of mutual trust: you trust me to leave it enabled if I have no reason not to and I trust you not to abuse the information collected. When there is no choice, as with Windows 10, I have to wonder why. What are you collecting that you won't allow me to turn it off at my discretion? What are you doing with that information that earning my trust is not an option?
  - cesarb 5y ago
    Linux is not just Ubuntu, there are plenty of distributions to choose from.
  - input_sh 5y ago
    It's asked one time, options are straight forward, and you can preview what gets sent to Ubuntu. The approach is far more reasonable than what Windows does.
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    Ubuntu is not all of Linux
- bserge 5y ago
  I like reading these kinds of comments, but then I snap back to reality. It's easier to make Windows 10 behave than make Linux actually work properly beyond a browser and an editor.
  - leshow 5y ago
    How so? Not to start the old windows vs linux flamewar but if something in Windows doesn't work the way you want it you don't have many options. In Linux you can change absolutely everything... and people have been making it "actually work properly" for decades. This feels like just your personal experience about how some Linux distro didn't work out of the box the way you wanted.
    - bserge 5y ago
      Yeah it's a useless debate. If you're lucky to only need software that runs on Linux and you use desktop hardware, it likely works well. It certainly works great in a VM, unlike Windows.
      - StandardFuture 5y ago
        > it's a useless debate Not really. It's just too complicated of a "debate" (it's actually a non-debate) or discussion to dive into the differentiating factors that will assume different priorities for different people. Tradeoffs are everywhere and in everything and so is nuance. Personally, I am growing tired of chasing Windows releases every few years so I will re-prioritize almost entirely around Linux's strengths.
  - neatze 5y ago
    this is just false.
    - philliphaydon 5y ago
      It's sort of true. For example, I have a 3700x / 5700XT computer. Windows 10 runs flawlessly without issues. Ubuntu, or any flavour of Ubuntu, runs like garbage. I have to fix screen tearing, slow boot, sleeping. Then from a clean install, open up firefox, and it crashes multiple times per day. It's not even close to stable. Yet I run any flavour of Ubuntu on my Intel laptop and it's flawless. Setup Manjaro on this same desktop, and it works flawlessly, yet on the same laptop if I use Wayland, it's completely broken. Yet all the same hardware, never had an issue with Windows. So my point is: Everyones experience is different. For some people they can set it up and fix it to be flawless, others just want to set it up and use it, not fiddle around.
squiggleblaz 5y ago
I guess that's the business norm. It's not really that Windows 7 is better than Windows 10, but that traditional business practices - of buying tools and using them and a respect for users - was better than modern business practices - of data and limited services and a confidence that the plan is always right. Everything has changed to foster that distrust, even completely non-computer services like journalism, taxis and food delivery. If Microsoft would go back to pick up development from Windows 7, or Windows 3.11 for Workgroups, it would still be about abusing their customers.
philliphaydon 5y ago
We more or less know what they collect. Trust MS more than facebook, Google, Twitter, tiktok. I mean your privacy is probably violated more just browsing the net, even with all your ad blockers and tracking disabled, than using Windows for any daily task. I only use Windows for gaming these days but privacy is hardly an issue in Windows compared to anything else.
- testific8 5y ago
  seems like whataboutism to me. It's OK for your operating system to leak information about me because the web already leaks information about me? Here's a novel idea: how about I get tracked by neither? This is like the reverse of eye-for-an-eye: pardon for a pardon makes the whole world innocent.
partiallypro 5y ago
I still don't get why Apple/Google are totally fine to collect telemetry but Microsoft is somehow supposed to not do that.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  Well on Apple platforms it’s easy to turn off with a single checkbox, which they explicitly ask you about at setup.
  - partiallypro 5y ago
    iOS infamously collects your location data even when you opt out of Apple's iOS analytics; it's more of illusion of control than anything.
    - dlivingston 5y ago
      Source?
      - tomlagier 5y ago
        Probably referring to this story: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/the-iphone-11-pros-location-data-puzzler/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/the-iphone-11-pros-locat...
        dlivingston 5y ago
        Interesting. Maybe GP comment knows something I don't, but from your article, this seems like much ado about nothing. From your article and the linked follow-up: The issue: "[Apple's] policy [is]: “You can also disable location-based system services by tapping on System Services and turning off each location-based system service.” But apparently there are some system services on this model...which request location data and cannot be disabled by users without completely turning off location services." Apple's response: “We do not see any actual security implications,” an Apple engineer wrote in a response to KrebsOnSecurity. “It is expected behavior that the Location Services icon appears in the status bar when Location Services is enabled. The icon appears for system services that do not have a switch in Settings” "...“Ultra Wideband technology is an industry standard technology and is subject to international regulatory requirements that require it to be turned off in certain locations,” the statement continues. “iOS uses Location Services to help determine if iPhone is in these prohibited locations in order to disable Ultra Wideband and comply with regulations. The management of Ultrawide Band compliance and its use of location data is done entirely on the device and Apple is not collecting user location data.”"
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
My privacy, and my time. No, I don't want your ads. No, I don't want your nagging. I want you to shut up and leave me alone. You're a tool that I bought, not my mother. I don't need you to nag me or give me advice. Related gripe: When it wants you to do something, it offers you two options, "Yes" and "Ask me later". Conspicuously missing: "No, and never ask me again". It won't let me say no, just later. Grr.

kathoum 5y ago

This. I switched from 7 to 10 when it was offered. I stayed with 10 for about one year, and I liked it thanks to all the fixes and improvements and despite the occasional quirk. But after one year, I realized my computer didn't feel like it was mine anymore. I jumped to linux and never went back.

partiallypro 5y ago
Ubuntu started collecting telemetry in 2018, I don't see how it's invasive at all.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  The difference between invasive and non-invasive telemetry is choice. If you give me the choice to turn it off, there's some sense of mutual trust: you trust me to leave it enabled if I have no reason not to and I trust you not to abuse the information collected. When there is no choice, as with Windows 10, I have to wonder why. What are you collecting that you won't allow me to turn it off at my discretion? What are you doing with that information that earning my trust is not an option?
- cesarb 5y ago
  Linux is not just Ubuntu, there are plenty of distributions to choose from.
- input_sh 5y ago
  It's asked one time, options are straight forward, and you can preview what gets sent to Ubuntu. The approach is far more reasonable than what Windows does.
- tomc1985 5y ago
  Ubuntu is not all of Linux
bserge 5y ago
I like reading these kinds of comments, but then I snap back to reality. It's easier to make Windows 10 behave than make Linux actually work properly beyond a browser and an editor.
- leshow 5y ago
  How so? Not to start the old windows vs linux flamewar but if something in Windows doesn't work the way you want it you don't have many options. In Linux you can change absolutely everything... and people have been making it "actually work properly" for decades. This feels like just your personal experience about how some Linux distro didn't work out of the box the way you wanted.
  - bserge 5y ago
    Yeah it's a useless debate. If you're lucky to only need software that runs on Linux and you use desktop hardware, it likely works well. It certainly works great in a VM, unlike Windows.
    - StandardFuture 5y ago
      > it's a useless debate Not really. It's just too complicated of a "debate" (it's actually a non-debate) or discussion to dive into the differentiating factors that will assume different priorities for different people. Tradeoffs are everywhere and in everything and so is nuance. Personally, I am growing tired of chasing Windows releases every few years so I will re-prioritize almost entirely around Linux's strengths.
- neatze 5y ago
  this is just false.
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    It's sort of true. For example, I have a 3700x / 5700XT computer. Windows 10 runs flawlessly without issues. Ubuntu, or any flavour of Ubuntu, runs like garbage. I have to fix screen tearing, slow boot, sleeping. Then from a clean install, open up firefox, and it crashes multiple times per day. It's not even close to stable. Yet I run any flavour of Ubuntu on my Intel laptop and it's flawless. Setup Manjaro on this same desktop, and it works flawlessly, yet on the same laptop if I use Wayland, it's completely broken. Yet all the same hardware, never had an issue with Windows. So my point is: Everyones experience is different. For some people they can set it up and fix it to be flawless, others just want to set it up and use it, not fiddle around.

squiggleblaz 5y ago

I guess that's the business norm. It's not really that Windows 7 is better than Windows 10, but that traditional business practices - of buying tools and using them and a respect for users - was better than modern business practices - of data and limited services and a confidence that the plan is always right. Everything has changed to foster that distrust, even completely non-computer services like journalism, taxis and food delivery. If Microsoft would go back to pick up development from Windows 7, or Windows 3.11 for Workgroups, it would still be about abusing their customers.

philliphaydon 5y ago

We more or less know what they collect. Trust MS more than facebook, Google, Twitter, tiktok. I mean your privacy is probably violated more just browsing the net, even with all your ad blockers and tracking disabled, than using Windows for any daily task. I only use Windows for gaming these days but privacy is hardly an issue in Windows compared to anything else.

testific8 5y ago
seems like whataboutism to me. It's OK for your operating system to leak information about me because the web already leaks information about me? Here's a novel idea: how about I get tracked by neither? This is like the reverse of eye-for-an-eye: pardon for a pardon makes the whole world innocent.

partiallypro 5y ago

I still don't get why Apple/Google are totally fine to collect telemetry but Microsoft is somehow supposed to not do that.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
Well on Apple platforms it’s easy to turn off with a single checkbox, which they explicitly ask you about at setup.
- partiallypro 5y ago
  iOS infamously collects your location data even when you opt out of Apple's iOS analytics; it's more of illusion of control than anything.
  - dlivingston 5y ago
    Source?
    - tomlagier 5y ago
      Probably referring to this story: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/the-iphone-11-pros-location-data-puzzler/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/the-iphone-11-pros-locat...
      - dlivingston 5y ago
        Interesting. Maybe GP comment knows something I don't, but from your article, this seems like much ado about nothing. From your article and the linked follow-up: The issue: "[Apple's] policy [is]: “You can also disable location-based system services by tapping on System Services and turning off each location-based system service.” But apparently there are some system services on this model...which request location data and cannot be disabled by users without completely turning off location services." Apple's response: “We do not see any actual security implications,” an Apple engineer wrote in a response to KrebsOnSecurity. “It is expected behavior that the Location Services icon appears in the status bar when Location Services is enabled. The icon appears for system services that do not have a switch in Settings” "...“Ultra Wideband technology is an industry standard technology and is subject to international regulatory requirements that require it to be turned off in certain locations,” the statement continues. “iOS uses Location Services to help determine if iPhone is in these prohibited locations in order to disable Ultra Wideband and comply with regulations. The management of Ultrawide Band compliance and its use of location data is done entirely on the device and Apple is not collecting user location data.”"

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

My privacy, and my time. No, I don't want your ads. No, I don't want your nagging. I want you to shut up and leave me alone. You're a tool that I bought, not my mother. I don't need you to nag me or give me advice. Related gripe: When it wants you to do something, it offers you two options, "Yes" and "Ask me later". Conspicuously missing: "No, and never ask me again". It won't let me say no, just later. Grr.