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Very interesting to see that this concerns app stores as well as web browsers. Web browsers had not been mentioned in most declarations regarding anti-competiti

by agust 5y ago

Very interesting to see that this concerns app stores as well as web browsers. Web browsers had not been mentioned in most declarations regarding anti-competitive investigations about Apple so far. This is very important because Apple is preventing competition in web browsers engines, forcing competitor browsers (like Chrome and Firefox) to use the engine under Safari (WebKit), which they fully control. By doing so they deprive other browsers of most of their value, and prevent the development of web applications capable of competing with native applications, because they do not implement crucial features in WebKit, like push notification.

detritus 5y ago
It might seem stupid and petty, but this was my single biggest gripe with the year I spent on an iPhone which led to my going back to Android after that phone (like all the others in my life) expired. The web browser is my single-most used piece of software, and I'd really like to choose which one I use, thanks (Firefox, in case you're wondering). That and not simply being able to drag and drop mp3s to listen to.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > That and not simply being able to drag and drop mp3s to listen to. Doesn't Apple Music support this? I have many MP3s I've dragged and dropped into Apple Music and then played them on my phone.
  - detritus 5y ago
    Perhaps, i more meant just plugging into a computer and dragging over files using the OS's file manager.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      These days that seems more hassle than doing it over the cloud though - I'd have to go and dig out some kind of physical cable!
saurik 5y ago
While I agree with almost all of your comment--particularly strongly with regards to the way Apple has hobbled the web as a competitor to their App Store platforms, but notably also with respect to Firefox being locked out here--given your first phrase, it is worth at least considering the argument that the only reason why there is currently any "competition in web browsers" at all is Apple being a stubborn asshole about the whole thing, as otherwise it feels highly likely that everyone, everywhere, on every single platform, would be using Chrome...
- ginko 5y ago
  Safari is just Webkit like Chrome and Edge. The only real competition is Firefox.
  - doublerabbit 5y ago
    With Google providing Firefox with life-support.
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    Technically Chrome forked off WebKit a few years back and Edge (and most other browsers) use that. I do wonder how different Blink and WebKit are at this point considering there’s quite a bit of manpower behind Blink.
    - baybal2 5y ago
      Blink gets many times more manpower than WebKit, it is also used by new IE, which assures Google the veto power on any new browser API.
  - agust 5y ago
    Any web developer would tell you that nowadays Blink (Google's WebKit fork) and WebKit are very different. Blink has more features than WebKit, and less bugs. So with Gecko (Firefox's engine) we really have three different browser engines nowadays.
defaultname 5y ago
I "use" Chrome on my iOS/iPadOS devices periodically. I use it for the integration with Google services, the shared state with Chrome on my other devices -- bookmarks, currently open pages, passwords, etc. I jump between devices and this integration is critical. This is mostly between my iOS and my Windows existence. I use Safari in a similar way, albeit mostly between my iOS and macOS existence. The number of times I've missed a Chrome engine feature is somewhere approximating zero. So saying "most of their value" seems pretty specious. If Chrome were faster, used less power, or had some value proposition rather than integration, sure, but it isn't. Here's a fun hottake - Chrome forced to use webkit on iOS is almost certainly better than Chrome would be if it used Google's own engine. "because they do not implement crucial features in WebKit, like push notification" There is always something that becomes the critical missing ingredient. Yet uptake of web apps on Android and the desktop is somewhere in the proximity of non-existent (but always explained away by shaking one's fist at Apple). The suite of features in web apps has grown spectacularly, and now encompasses high performance graphics, a massive VM, game controllers, gyroscopes and cameras and microphones, but there is always just one more thing that Apple is always to blame for. This is another futile thread that is going to be brigaded by the anti-Apple crew, so please enjoy downvoting to try to assuage whatever hangups you have.
- tomxor 5y ago
  It's not anti Apple, your view is just severely departed from reality.
  - defaultname 5y ago
    Thanks for the valuable insights.

by agust 5y ago

detritus 5y ago

It might seem stupid and petty, but this was my single biggest gripe with the year I spent on an iPhone which led to my going back to Android after that phone (like all the others in my life) expired. The web browser is my single-most used piece of software, and I'd really like to choose which one I use, thanks (Firefox, in case you're wondering). That and not simply being able to drag and drop mp3s to listen to.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> That and not simply being able to drag and drop mp3s to listen to. Doesn't Apple Music support this? I have many MP3s I've dragged and dropped into Apple Music and then played them on my phone.
- detritus 5y ago
  Perhaps, i more meant just plugging into a computer and dragging over files using the OS's file manager.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    These days that seems more hassle than doing it over the cloud though - I'd have to go and dig out some kind of physical cable!

saurik 5y ago

While I agree with almost all of your comment--particularly strongly with regards to the way Apple has hobbled the web as a competitor to their App Store platforms, but notably also with respect to Firefox being locked out here--given your first phrase, it is worth at least considering the argument that the only reason why there is currently any "competition in web browsers" at all is Apple being a stubborn asshole about the whole thing, as otherwise it feels highly likely that everyone, everywhere, on every single platform, would be using Chrome...

ginko 5y ago
Safari is just Webkit like Chrome and Edge. The only real competition is Firefox.
- doublerabbit 5y ago
  With Google providing Firefox with life-support.
- vlovich123 5y ago
  Technically Chrome forked off WebKit a few years back and Edge (and most other browsers) use that. I do wonder how different Blink and WebKit are at this point considering there’s quite a bit of manpower behind Blink.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Blink gets many times more manpower than WebKit, it is also used by new IE, which assures Google the veto power on any new browser API.
- agust 5y ago
  Any web developer would tell you that nowadays Blink (Google's WebKit fork) and WebKit are very different. Blink has more features than WebKit, and less bugs. So with Gecko (Firefox's engine) we really have three different browser engines nowadays.

defaultname 5y ago

I "use" Chrome on my iOS/iPadOS devices periodically. I use it for the integration with Google services, the shared state with Chrome on my other devices -- bookmarks, currently open pages, passwords, etc. I jump between devices and this integration is critical. This is mostly between my iOS and my Windows existence. I use Safari in a similar way, albeit mostly between my iOS and macOS existence. The number of times I've missed a Chrome engine feature is somewhere approximating zero. So saying "most of their value" seems pretty specious. If Chrome were faster, used less power, or had some value proposition rather than integration, sure, but it isn't. Here's a fun hottake - Chrome forced to use webkit on iOS is almost certainly better than Chrome would be if it used Google's own engine. "because they do not implement crucial features in WebKit, like push notification" There is always something that becomes the critical missing ingredient. Yet uptake of web apps on Android and the desktop is somewhere in the proximity of non-existent (but always explained away by shaking one's fist at Apple). The suite of features in web apps has grown spectacularly, and now encompasses high performance graphics, a massive VM, game controllers, gyroscopes and cameras and microphones, but there is always just one more thing that Apple is always to blame for. This is another futile thread that is going to be brigaded by the anti-Apple crew, so please enjoy downvoting to try to assuage whatever hangups you have.

tomxor 5y ago
It's not anti Apple, your view is just severely departed from reality.
- defaultname 5y ago
  Thanks for the valuable insights.