4 ms·

Was hoping the point would be that science today at the most fundamental level is descriptive, not explanatory, and being humble and honest about our failure to

Was hoping the point would be that science today at the most fundamental level is descriptive, not explanatory, and being humble and honest about our failure to be explanatory would make people more interested and less intimated. For example, there are four fundamental forces and a table of fundamental particles. Why? Don't know, we just noticed them. All of chemistry seems to be determined by properties and interactions of electrons, which also determines biology. Where do these electrons come from? Don't know, just there. The gravitational constant pops up in bunch of equations. So does the speed of light. Why do they have their specific values? Why is there even a speed limit in the universe (which expanding space violates)? Don't know, we just noticed it.

ganafagol 5y ago
Clearly you are not a physicist. Just because you don't personally know sth does not mean it's not there or being worked on. The theory of relativity has quite clear thoughts about why there is a "speed limit". Entire branches of physics ponder about why and when electrons and other particles came about. The shrugging "Don't know, we just noticed it." that you ascribe to scientists' reactions does not match reality.
- buildingmateri 5y ago
  Showing your own ignorance here. Where do electrons come from? Or any of the other fundamental particles. Please, enlighten the world of science. "Fundamental constant" means "we don't know why it has that value, we just noticed it does" You're proving my point, people don't like science because folks like you make it seem filled with all knowing experts when really the most fundamental questions are not answered
  - myWindoonn 5y ago
    At the scale of electron-sized particles, local reality no longer definitely exists. In fact, we have a chunk of math (Bell's inequalities) which suggests that local reality cannot exist; either some parts of reality are non-local, or some parts of local interactions are non-real. I say this because it undermines your hope that epistemology and metaphysics is merely a matter of explaining where electrons "come from"; the question is so wrong that it must be entirely rethought. An electron isn't a dot in space, but a behavior smeared throughout a region. I thought that the reason that folks didn't like science is because they were preoccupied with Jehovah/etc. but perhaps I'm wrong.
    - buildingmateri 5y ago
      Sounds like you're attempting to refer to qft? Passes the buck down and is still fundamentally descriptive not explanatory. People don't like fields when there's a bunch of gatekeepers who can't resist posing as experts and shun people who ask simple questions which they can't provide answers for. That's part of Eric Weinstein's critique of today's particle physics community which I share.
      - ganafagol 5y ago
        Is there any answer possible short of "it's god" that would satisfy you? I'm asking because you are giving the impression that whatever answer you get, you will reply to with "but why?" and "that's just passing the buck down". A fundamental thing about science is that we'll likely never have all the answers. You can always ask "but why?". That's not gatekeeping but the difference to religions which often times claims to have the final answer. (Ironically there is a lot of gatekeeping in religion since not everybody is permitted to interpret scripture as they wish.)
  - ganafagol 5y ago
    And you are ignoring my point. :) These questions already have (partial) answers and are otherwise being worked on. If you are really interested in answers, go ask a physicist and not some random dude on the internet whom you happen to disagree with. It's not me who is working on them, it's exactly those physicists that you are accusing of ignorance. (The irony in that is quite amusing.)
    - buildingmateri 5y ago
      Yet you don't know... you're just saying "I bet someone else knows" without being aware that many experts in physics would admit "we don't know" to these questions... what my undergrad ivy league physics professor was wiling to admit... Not sure why you responded if you yourself don't know the subject matter, wanting to play gatekeeper because you thought I was talking too casually I guess?
- buildingmateri 5y ago
  Btw some proof/discussion how physicists don't know why there is a speed limit (and seemingly more proof you haven't spent much time thinking about physics yourself?): https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/230703/do-we-know-why-there-is-a-speed-limit-in-our-universe https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/230703/do-we-kno...

ganafagol 5y ago

Clearly you are not a physicist. Just because you don't personally know sth does not mean it's not there or being worked on. The theory of relativity has quite clear thoughts about why there is a "speed limit". Entire branches of physics ponder about why and when electrons and other particles came about. The shrugging "Don't know, we just noticed it." that you ascribe to scientists' reactions does not match reality.

buildingmateri 5y ago
Showing your own ignorance here. Where do electrons come from? Or any of the other fundamental particles. Please, enlighten the world of science. "Fundamental constant" means "we don't know why it has that value, we just noticed it does" You're proving my point, people don't like science because folks like you make it seem filled with all knowing experts when really the most fundamental questions are not answered
- myWindoonn 5y ago
  At the scale of electron-sized particles, local reality no longer definitely exists. In fact, we have a chunk of math (Bell's inequalities) which suggests that local reality cannot exist; either some parts of reality are non-local, or some parts of local interactions are non-real. I say this because it undermines your hope that epistemology and metaphysics is merely a matter of explaining where electrons "come from"; the question is so wrong that it must be entirely rethought. An electron isn't a dot in space, but a behavior smeared throughout a region. I thought that the reason that folks didn't like science is because they were preoccupied with Jehovah/etc. but perhaps I'm wrong.
  - buildingmateri 5y ago
    Sounds like you're attempting to refer to qft? Passes the buck down and is still fundamentally descriptive not explanatory. People don't like fields when there's a bunch of gatekeepers who can't resist posing as experts and shun people who ask simple questions which they can't provide answers for. That's part of Eric Weinstein's critique of today's particle physics community which I share.
    - ganafagol 5y ago
      Is there any answer possible short of "it's god" that would satisfy you? I'm asking because you are giving the impression that whatever answer you get, you will reply to with "but why?" and "that's just passing the buck down". A fundamental thing about science is that we'll likely never have all the answers. You can always ask "but why?". That's not gatekeeping but the difference to religions which often times claims to have the final answer. (Ironically there is a lot of gatekeeping in religion since not everybody is permitted to interpret scripture as they wish.)
- ganafagol 5y ago
  And you are ignoring my point. :) These questions already have (partial) answers and are otherwise being worked on. If you are really interested in answers, go ask a physicist and not some random dude on the internet whom you happen to disagree with. It's not me who is working on them, it's exactly those physicists that you are accusing of ignorance. (The irony in that is quite amusing.)
  - buildingmateri 5y ago
    Yet you don't know... you're just saying "I bet someone else knows" without being aware that many experts in physics would admit "we don't know" to these questions... what my undergrad ivy league physics professor was wiling to admit... Not sure why you responded if you yourself don't know the subject matter, wanting to play gatekeeper because you thought I was talking too casually I guess?
buildingmateri 5y ago
Btw some proof/discussion how physicists don't know why there is a speed limit (and seemingly more proof you haven't spent much time thinking about physics yourself?): https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/230703/do-we-know-why-there-is-a-speed-limit-in-our-universe https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/230703/do-we-kno...