7 ms·

I always think of the remarkable as a really odd device. Hardware wise, it looks great, but I seldom hear good things about the software, only that it is "impro

I always think of the remarkable as a really odd device. Hardware wise, it looks great, but I seldom hear good things about the software, only that it is "improving" for years now. Also, while I think the form factor would be great for a text and graphics based computing device, they seem to invest as much energy as possible in playing down the computing angle, so that instead of having something great to do technical sketching, email or even interactive notebooks like Jupiter on, you get a really over engineered piece of paper. Now, it's pretty open, which is great, but I am not that convinced it will necessary remain so, and at that price, buying it only in the hopes of some people making better software in their free time always seems like a bigger gamble I like to take. I accept that for me ~120€ ereader, but for 5 times the price? I really wish they would embrace mobile computing. Combining an e-ink tablet optimized for text with a moldable operating system like on the old xerox machines could be so incredibly good. By the way, does the hardware allow connecting an external keyboard?

jonahbenton 5y ago
I'm a fan of the remarkable, use v2 every day. My high school daughter uses my old v1 every day. We both love it. But it is absolutely very opinionated- entirely oriented around hand-writing use cases, specifically those that involve being away from power and network. So its power budget is low and it has amazingly robust synchronization. You can read and do some other things on it, but that's not what it solves for.
salamandersauce 5y ago
Boox Note Air does through Bluetooth or USB C. It just runs Android so you can pretty much do whatever. It's literally an Android Tablet with an eInk screen. Remarkable you can hack in keyboard support. They are just focused on making a good digital notepad. Even their reading software is sub-par.
throwuxiytayq 5y ago
Remarkable is really a device for people who explicitly don't want those features. They're betting hard that the market exists, although it probably isn't as large as the market for an as-powerful-as-possible general-purpose computing device. I've seen it mentioned that someone got an USB keyboard working, and the device is pretty hackable overall (you can SSH to root over wifi out of the box!), but I think if you want to connect an external keyboard then it probably isn't for you anyway. You can't even type text in documents. Disclaimer: reMarkable 2 user, pretty happy with their focus, but I wish the device was more responsive in some scenarios (complicated drawings are very slow) and there's certainly many missing core drawing/writing/reading features.
- Grumbledour 5y ago
  Let me just add that I am not talking about a powerful all purpose computing device, because I think we pretty much have this with modern tablets/laptops. But I do feel the computing part could be much more utilized to make taking notes and reading text better. I am thinking of Hypertext, drawing tools like sketchpad, simple programming tools etc. Not a device that does as much as possible badly, but one that could really push forward computing and text to get something more akin to digital paper we have seen for years in science fiction. I don't begrudge people who like the extremely limited use case it has today, I personally just don't really get it why I should spend hundreds of dollars on something that I can pretty much get with a notebook and my smartphone camera. On the other hand, this is a general problem these days that hampers innovation. As hard as hardware seems to be, it is obviously much easier than software, which is why so many devices these days fall short.
  - fouric 5y ago
    > But I do feel the computing part could be much more utilized to make taking notes and reading text better. I am thinking of Hypertext, drawing tools like sketchpad, simple programming tools etc. The problem is that even those "simple" things are a massive amount of work to get right (where "right" means bug-free, performant, well-documented (or intuitive - pick at least one), flexible, and with an ergonomic interface). Additionally, they're significantly more work than the even simpler restricted feature-set that the reMarkable currently offers. I believe that the reMarkable developers are shooting for "quality over quantity" - polishing a small feature-set to a blinding shine, rather than trying to implement a larger feature-set poorly - that is, an intentional trade-off. I'm happy with that trade-off, but I know that others might not be - in which case, you'll probably get the Android device that other people in the thread are discussing. Also, the reMarkable is open - you can add all these things yourself, if you're sufficiently motivated. > something that I can pretty much get with a notebook The reMarkable's features, as limited as they are, are still miles beyond what a notebook gives you. You have backup, synchronization, document export (PDF, raster, SVG), undo/redo, multiple documents, digital storage, cut/copy/paste, erasing (pen can't be erased, pencil usually leaves marks and has other problems), multiple brushes, page reordering, multiple page templates (lined, grid, music, blank canvas, and more), layers, really good handwriting recognition, and more. Yes, it's light-years behind what we could have - but we're stuck in the place we're at because of a number of computing decisions that we made in the past (and continue to make now) that hamper creativity and flexibility, and overcoming those choices requires a lot of resources and the ability to ignore/bypass/counteract a massive amount of market inertia. The reMarkable team simply doesn't have those resources, so they have to make a trade-off - and the trade-off they made was quality over quantity (of features).
varispeed 5y ago
Lack of computer features is refreshing to be honest. You can't be distracted just like sitting in front of blank page of paper. That being said, a deal breaker for me is lack of encryption.
bipson 5y ago
E-Mail and Python notebooks? I don't think they these are the primary use cases for a "digital paper" device. What you consider an "overengineered piece" of paper might be intentional. Maybe you don't need paper - some people do.
- Grumbledour 5y ago
  But should a more modern, digital paper, not enhance the human intellect? Why should I not be able to jot down a math formula that the computer then solves for me? Why cant I draw a triangle and let it compute the sides? Why not write a letter to a friend and send it directly to them and also read their answer on the same device? This would be enhancing paper for me. Combining the at this point pretty natural way of writing on paper with many of the modern computers amenities. Sure, you might not need all these, but paper is also cents if you really need "Not features". Minimalism and focus on core features is fine, but artificially limitations in this way does not seem to help remarkable to deliver good software. So what does it achieve?
  - criddell 5y ago
    > So what does it achieve? Sustainability. The device isn't for everybody. The constraints are features. Sounds like you want something more like an iPad.
    - dTal 5y ago
      Except e-ink, and ultra-low-latency pen input, and ssh-able... I think the "interactive paper" vision is very different from the "ipad" vision.
      - criddell 5y ago
        The RM2 pen latency (20 ms) is double the iPad's (9 ms). I wouldn't call the RM2 interactive paper. It's digital paper. Remarkable has focused their device to that niche and I think that was very smart of them. It's all about e-ink, crazy battery life, no distractions. I know a lot of people want more functionality - especially in the reader area, drawing apps, and calendar functions. So far Remarkable has managed to stay focused on the core functionality and I think the longer they can remain focused, the better off the company is. Every feature they add is something they have to test and maintain forever and that's a lot for a small company to do and still sell the device for about $400 (which is a bargain IMHO). What I'd like to see is a bigger option. It would be nice to have at least a full A4/letter size screen. It would make dealing with PDFs a much better experience.
tluyben2 5y ago
Yeah so you want the Boox with Play Store installed. Then you have all that stuff.
- Grumbledour 5y ago
  Well, in theory. One could write an app for that I guess. But the whole complex android stack does not really appeal to me. Simplicity I think, would also be really important. And I think openness goes hand in hand with that.
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    Boox is easy to root and the remarkable is open. Not sure how well the remarkable would work with a keyboard, but my Boox included a keyboard (it's just a BLE one but it has good support). On the remarkable at least you should be able to run some tiny linux distro with a simple as you want stack. Guess in time we will get something; just not sure how to make sure it's more open.
spinningslate 5y ago
>I seldom hear good things about the software, only that it is "improving" for years now. I think that depends on what you want out of the device. It's definitely limited - but, as other posters note, that's an explicit design choice. A design goal in fact. But what it does, it does pretty well. I've had my RM2 for maybe a year now. And I use it daily. It's become my preferred note-taking & sketching medium, replacing the paper notepads I've used for years. I don't use it for anything else: but it supports those two use cases very nicely. It's simple but subtle things that I've found useful, for example: 1. Keeping my notes in folders. 2. Being able to add notes to a subject (folder), rather than interleaving in a paper book 3. Being able to move things about when sketching. I'd often get to the edge of the paper in a notebook and need to cram something awkwardly. Now, I can just select and move. I've tried using a wacom tablet connected to the PC instead, and much prefer the remarkable. The ergonomics just feel so much better. It's not perfect: live sync can be a bit unreliable, and I'd prefer the "todo" template to be a bit more app-like (move items off the list when complete). But I can live with those. I like the fact it's focused, efficient, pleasant to use, and doesn't try to be all things to all people.
83457 5y ago
What I can say is it just works. If you keep a notebook, it is a viable alternative with few drawbacks and many advantages in my experience. They have been very careful and deliberate with their features. At first it was odd or even frustrating that the capabilities are limited, but over time I have started to understand their approach and wanting to align with their goal of being a focused and distraction free experience. It seems like they have little real competition in this niche they have carved out, so can take the time to slowly but continuously role out enhancements. It reminds me of how the iPhone has been limited in overall capabilities compared to Android but stays more streamlined as enhancements are made.
marvindanig 5y ago
> Hardware wise, it looks great, but I seldom hear good things about the software, only that it is "improving" for years now. It was pretty much DOA for me. Over the years I have learned/trained my hand to keep away from pen and paper. Well, mostly. Asking the same limb to now go back into taking notes by hand or drawing free-hand is a no-go for me. I learned this the hard way. And yes, laggy software makes it worse.
ocdtrekkie 5y ago
I can tell you my wife absolutely loves her Remarkable 2. I kinda want one myself now, but am not sure I can justify the cost for myself because my technology usage is different. In her case, the ereader functionality is secondary. She's big on writing in notebooks and the Remarkable's experience there justifies the cost. It's really a device for writing, not reading.
lovelyviking 5y ago
>By the way, does the hardware allow connecting an external keyboard? I know for sure that RM1 hardware does allow you to connect external keyboard becase I have done it. I can't tell about RM2 as I do not have it.
karpour 5y ago
I have a reMarkable 2 for a while now, and I'm super happy with it. I specifically didn't want an Android device because of the obsolescence. The reMarkable doesn't run much in the background and does its job well. I bought it to read my IT books, works perfectly. I'm also an artist, and even though I didn't expect much from the pen, sketching on it is very fun and I find myself filling a page of sketches almost every day. Having full access to the underlying OS is also a big plus, even though I didn't do anything with that yet.
whywhywhywhy 5y ago
> I accept that for me ~120€ ereader There is no point chasing hardware customers who would only pay $120 for a device like this. You're never going to be able to make a sustainable business at that prices and those people are always going to be comparing your product to Amazon Kindle prices yet also demanding way beyond that. Better to find an audience that is passionate about what you're building and passionate for a new alternative and willing to spend the money that can keep your business sustainable. I understand you'd be more interested if it was Jupiter notebooks tablet but eInk but that's an even more niche product than note taking and would therefore cost way more than the current price.

jonahbenton 5y ago

I'm a fan of the remarkable, use v2 every day. My high school daughter uses my old v1 every day. We both love it. But it is absolutely very opinionated- entirely oriented around hand-writing use cases, specifically those that involve being away from power and network. So its power budget is low and it has amazingly robust synchronization. You can read and do some other things on it, but that's not what it solves for.

salamandersauce 5y ago

Boox Note Air does through Bluetooth or USB C. It just runs Android so you can pretty much do whatever. It's literally an Android Tablet with an eInk screen. Remarkable you can hack in keyboard support. They are just focused on making a good digital notepad. Even their reading software is sub-par.

throwuxiytayq 5y ago

Remarkable is really a device for people who explicitly don't want those features. They're betting hard that the market exists, although it probably isn't as large as the market for an as-powerful-as-possible general-purpose computing device. I've seen it mentioned that someone got an USB keyboard working, and the device is pretty hackable overall (you can SSH to root over wifi out of the box!), but I think if you want to connect an external keyboard then it probably isn't for you anyway. You can't even type text in documents. Disclaimer: reMarkable 2 user, pretty happy with their focus, but I wish the device was more responsive in some scenarios (complicated drawings are very slow) and there's certainly many missing core drawing/writing/reading features.

Grumbledour 5y ago
Let me just add that I am not talking about a powerful all purpose computing device, because I think we pretty much have this with modern tablets/laptops. But I do feel the computing part could be much more utilized to make taking notes and reading text better. I am thinking of Hypertext, drawing tools like sketchpad, simple programming tools etc. Not a device that does as much as possible badly, but one that could really push forward computing and text to get something more akin to digital paper we have seen for years in science fiction. I don't begrudge people who like the extremely limited use case it has today, I personally just don't really get it why I should spend hundreds of dollars on something that I can pretty much get with a notebook and my smartphone camera. On the other hand, this is a general problem these days that hampers innovation. As hard as hardware seems to be, it is obviously much easier than software, which is why so many devices these days fall short.
- fouric 5y ago
  > But I do feel the computing part could be much more utilized to make taking notes and reading text better. I am thinking of Hypertext, drawing tools like sketchpad, simple programming tools etc. The problem is that even those "simple" things are a massive amount of work to get right (where "right" means bug-free, performant, well-documented (or intuitive - pick at least one), flexible, and with an ergonomic interface). Additionally, they're significantly more work than the even simpler restricted feature-set that the reMarkable currently offers. I believe that the reMarkable developers are shooting for "quality over quantity" - polishing a small feature-set to a blinding shine, rather than trying to implement a larger feature-set poorly - that is, an intentional trade-off. I'm happy with that trade-off, but I know that others might not be - in which case, you'll probably get the Android device that other people in the thread are discussing. Also, the reMarkable is open - you can add all these things yourself, if you're sufficiently motivated. > something that I can pretty much get with a notebook The reMarkable's features, as limited as they are, are still miles beyond what a notebook gives you. You have backup, synchronization, document export (PDF, raster, SVG), undo/redo, multiple documents, digital storage, cut/copy/paste, erasing (pen can't be erased, pencil usually leaves marks and has other problems), multiple brushes, page reordering, multiple page templates (lined, grid, music, blank canvas, and more), layers, really good handwriting recognition, and more. Yes, it's light-years behind what we could have - but we're stuck in the place we're at because of a number of computing decisions that we made in the past (and continue to make now) that hamper creativity and flexibility, and overcoming those choices requires a lot of resources and the ability to ignore/bypass/counteract a massive amount of market inertia. The reMarkable team simply doesn't have those resources, so they have to make a trade-off - and the trade-off they made was quality over quantity (of features).

varispeed 5y ago

Lack of computer features is refreshing to be honest. You can't be distracted just like sitting in front of blank page of paper. That being said, a deal breaker for me is lack of encryption.

bipson 5y ago

E-Mail and Python notebooks? I don't think they these are the primary use cases for a "digital paper" device. What you consider an "overengineered piece" of paper might be intentional. Maybe you don't need paper - some people do.

Grumbledour 5y ago
But should a more modern, digital paper, not enhance the human intellect? Why should I not be able to jot down a math formula that the computer then solves for me? Why cant I draw a triangle and let it compute the sides? Why not write a letter to a friend and send it directly to them and also read their answer on the same device? This would be enhancing paper for me. Combining the at this point pretty natural way of writing on paper with many of the modern computers amenities. Sure, you might not need all these, but paper is also cents if you really need "Not features". Minimalism and focus on core features is fine, but artificially limitations in this way does not seem to help remarkable to deliver good software. So what does it achieve?
- criddell 5y ago
  > So what does it achieve? Sustainability. The device isn't for everybody. The constraints are features. Sounds like you want something more like an iPad.
  - dTal 5y ago
    Except e-ink, and ultra-low-latency pen input, and ssh-able... I think the "interactive paper" vision is very different from the "ipad" vision.
    - criddell 5y ago
      The RM2 pen latency (20 ms) is double the iPad's (9 ms). I wouldn't call the RM2 interactive paper. It's digital paper. Remarkable has focused their device to that niche and I think that was very smart of them. It's all about e-ink, crazy battery life, no distractions. I know a lot of people want more functionality - especially in the reader area, drawing apps, and calendar functions. So far Remarkable has managed to stay focused on the core functionality and I think the longer they can remain focused, the better off the company is. Every feature they add is something they have to test and maintain forever and that's a lot for a small company to do and still sell the device for about $400 (which is a bargain IMHO). What I'd like to see is a bigger option. It would be nice to have at least a full A4/letter size screen. It would make dealing with PDFs a much better experience.

tluyben2 5y ago

Yeah so you want the Boox with Play Store installed. Then you have all that stuff.

Grumbledour 5y ago
Well, in theory. One could write an app for that I guess. But the whole complex android stack does not really appeal to me. Simplicity I think, would also be really important. And I think openness goes hand in hand with that.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Boox is easy to root and the remarkable is open. Not sure how well the remarkable would work with a keyboard, but my Boox included a keyboard (it's just a BLE one but it has good support). On the remarkable at least you should be able to run some tiny linux distro with a simple as you want stack. Guess in time we will get something; just not sure how to make sure it's more open.

spinningslate 5y ago

>I seldom hear good things about the software, only that it is "improving" for years now. I think that depends on what you want out of the device. It's definitely limited - but, as other posters note, that's an explicit design choice. A design goal in fact. But what it does, it does pretty well. I've had my RM2 for maybe a year now. And I use it daily. It's become my preferred note-taking & sketching medium, replacing the paper notepads I've used for years. I don't use it for anything else: but it supports those two use cases very nicely. It's simple but subtle things that I've found useful, for example: 1. Keeping my notes in folders. 2. Being able to add notes to a subject (folder), rather than interleaving in a paper book 3. Being able to move things about when sketching. I'd often get to the edge of the paper in a notebook and need to cram something awkwardly. Now, I can just select and move. I've tried using a wacom tablet connected to the PC instead, and much prefer the remarkable. The ergonomics just feel so much better. It's not perfect: live sync can be a bit unreliable, and I'd prefer the "todo" template to be a bit more app-like (move items off the list when complete). But I can live with those. I like the fact it's focused, efficient, pleasant to use, and doesn't try to be all things to all people.

83457 5y ago

What I can say is it just works. If you keep a notebook, it is a viable alternative with few drawbacks and many advantages in my experience. They have been very careful and deliberate with their features. At first it was odd or even frustrating that the capabilities are limited, but over time I have started to understand their approach and wanting to align with their goal of being a focused and distraction free experience. It seems like they have little real competition in this niche they have carved out, so can take the time to slowly but continuously role out enhancements. It reminds me of how the iPhone has been limited in overall capabilities compared to Android but stays more streamlined as enhancements are made.

marvindanig 5y ago

> Hardware wise, it looks great, but I seldom hear good things about the software, only that it is "improving" for years now. It was pretty much DOA for me. Over the years I have learned/trained my hand to keep away from pen and paper. Well, mostly. Asking the same limb to now go back into taking notes by hand or drawing free-hand is a no-go for me. I learned this the hard way. And yes, laggy software makes it worse.

ocdtrekkie 5y ago

I can tell you my wife absolutely loves her Remarkable 2. I kinda want one myself now, but am not sure I can justify the cost for myself because my technology usage is different. In her case, the ereader functionality is secondary. She's big on writing in notebooks and the Remarkable's experience there justifies the cost. It's really a device for writing, not reading.

lovelyviking 5y ago

>By the way, does the hardware allow connecting an external keyboard? I know for sure that RM1 hardware does allow you to connect external keyboard becase I have done it. I can't tell about RM2 as I do not have it.

karpour 5y ago

I have a reMarkable 2 for a while now, and I'm super happy with it. I specifically didn't want an Android device because of the obsolescence. The reMarkable doesn't run much in the background and does its job well. I bought it to read my IT books, works perfectly. I'm also an artist, and even though I didn't expect much from the pen, sketching on it is very fun and I find myself filling a page of sketches almost every day. Having full access to the underlying OS is also a big plus, even though I didn't do anything with that yet.

whywhywhywhy 5y ago

> I accept that for me ~120€ ereader There is no point chasing hardware customers who would only pay $120 for a device like this. You're never going to be able to make a sustainable business at that prices and those people are always going to be comparing your product to Amazon Kindle prices yet also demanding way beyond that. Better to find an audience that is passionate about what you're building and passionate for a new alternative and willing to spend the money that can keep your business sustainable. I understand you'd be more interested if it was Jupiter notebooks tablet but eInk but that's an even more niche product than note taking and would therefore cost way more than the current price.