14 ms·

Big tech face EU blow in national data watchdogs ruling

189 points by shivbhatt 5y ago

thrower123 5y ago
They keep doing these things that are ostensibly aimed at hurting Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. But the effect of their actions just entrenches those big players, who have the money and the legal teams and the resources, such that the added regulatory burden widens their moats and suppresses upstart competition.
- thakoppno 5y ago
  Perhaps it slows down bigger tech companies ability to innovate. My tech co has spent a significant amount of energy complying with GDPR and CCPA the last couple years while the products have received less and less feature improvements. A brand new entrant would likely bolt on compliance to their innovative product once it reached critical mass, not before.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    The real result is preventing smaller players from emerging. Big tech can easily deal with regulations, they have money. A new social network? It doesn't stand a chance, especially if they raised money in Europe. I wonder if Big Tech will bail out the EU once they collapse on their debts.
streamofdigits 5y ago
What is it with the British Isles and their "job specialization" in arbitraging / milking the economy of continental Europe? From the financial rent seeking of London, to the tax and privacy regulatory arbitrages of Ireland the same pattern of exploiting arbitrarily erected information walls to evade scrutiny and accountability. Of course this is a tango that takes three to dance...
- s_dev 5y ago
  >What is it with the British Isles It's not a British Isle -- it's an Irish one. Great Britain refers to the main island composing England, Scotland and Wales. The Irish isle of Ireland is composed of the two Irelands (Ireland and Northern Ireland). The 'British Isles' term is disputed by many Irish people. The reason it's not a geographic term is because it's not a river -- Britain is a geopolitical entity not a purely geographic one. The fact the Ireland was head of the GDPR for the EU was merely an odd coincidence and has been rectified. You won't many upset Irish people over this.
  - tremon 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles > The British Isles are a group of islands in the North Atlantic off the north-western coast of continental Europe, consisting of the islands of Great Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Hebrides and over six thousand smaller islands. [They] include two sovereign states, the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
    - anonymousDan 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute No-one in Ireland would refer to them as the British Isles.
      - dangerface 5y ago
        I do
        overscore 5y ago
        No-one is obviously hyperbole, but it's extremely uncommon in Ireland. It's a shortcut to start an argument, for sure.
nivenkos 5y ago
How about actually supporting the European Tech industry instead of just adding endless bureaucracy? Ban Oracle and Microsoft from public procurement and start supporting the European equivalent of Baidu or Yandex. With ARM (prior to the acquisition), Linux, MariaDB, etc. - Europe was in a great position to do this. We need to stop this digital colonialism where massive, monopolistic US corporations pay no taxes in Europe, and then take all the profits back to the US where they pay 3x the salaries - only supporting the US economy.
- nob0dyasked 5y ago
  Why judging things by their capacity to pay taxes? Taxes are about the least thing that matters for society. You complain about incompetent bureaucracy but who do you think manages taxes? Good service, privacy, innovation, these are the questions.
- tester34 5y ago
  I'd rather ban fb, twitter, tiktok
  - spodek 5y ago
    Calling them tech associates them with inventors and people who want to improve life. The Sackler family and Purdue Pharma is a more accurate association. They purport to help and in some situation they do. We all love cat videos and notes from mom and dad. But they make money from addicting people. Whatever technologies they create serve that mission. They're not opposed to improving the quality of users' lives, but that's a side effect. Mostly they relieve craving in ways that recreate it.
- TX0098812 5y ago
  > How about actually supporting the European Tech industry instead of just adding endless bureaucracy? Their power is to make rules, so they will make rules because it is all they know how to do. Leaving things alone is often the most difficult (and important) thing to do.
  - 5y ago
kostyal 5y ago
The world's countries at a party, tech edition: US: We'll bring the software! China: We'll bring the hardware! EU: We'll bring the regulation!
- uhorb 5y ago
  Ah yes, the country of the European Union
  - afiori 5y ago
    Categories are created for people not people for categoried https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-made-for-man-not-man-for-the-categories/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-ma...
  - kostyal 5y ago
    it's a joke you pedant
  - r8d7u3h3 5y ago
    Frankly, given the primacy of EU law it's strange to me that EU members feel like they really are countries anymore.
    - uhorb 5y ago
      From my perspective, EU law does not play the most dominant role in everyday life. Apart from the big (or super silly) changes, it’s often more of a news maker. Take that plus big cultural differences (most notably: not being able to understand each other’s language), and you get a feeling of own nationalities.
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      There are still so many cultural and legislative differences between countries that people don't feel Europeans, they identify with the individual country. The UK was definitely the country which stood out the most in EU, so after Brexit, the EU lost one furthest away country in its block, in terms of diversity. EU law cover stuff you hardly run into. Sure, you have euros everywhere but they don't regulate how much taxes you pay or how your national health care is managed. All is fine until they start regulating on things that matter. Immigration is definitely one of the first sector where people started noticing they're in the EU, because they're unhappy with the results.
PicassoCTs 5y ago
This is the european equivalent to project golden shield. Establish hostile laws, locking google,amazon and fb out & grow local companies to fill the gap.
- sgift 5y ago
  Nothing about these laws is specific to foreign companies. It's specific to data abusing companies and if those come from within Europe they get fined too.
joelbluminator 5y ago
Its very hard. Even if you build an EU Facebook that is awesome, how do you make users switch? All the data is in the old Facebook. Not just your profile: groups, pages, marketplace etc etc
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Enforcing the GDPR properly would make Facebook as we currently know it unsustainable, so they'd have to charge money, opening themselves up to competition.
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    Thats quite harsh though, lots of people rely on Facebook for their business/pages/groups etc. Whats more the U.S can retaliate back since it can be seen as protectionism...
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      I don’t deny that lots of people rely on Facebook. However what the GDPR demands seems absolutely reasonable. All it requires is that the company must be transparent with what data it collects, how it uses it and gives each individual control of whether they want to allow Facebook to collect and use their data for specific purposes. If Facebook can’t sustain itself without stalking everyone, it’s a problem with Facebook, not with the GDPR.
      - joelbluminator 5y ago
        Well since it's gonna destroy Europe not just for Facebook but probably all big U.S tech I don't see why the U.S won't reciprocate with nice tariffs on EU auto industry for instance. It seems quite draconian actually since almost no one complies with GDPR to that extent.
Nextgrid 5y ago
It's about time. Provided the GDPR now actually gets enforced, this would clean up the web from all the obnoxious consent flows (remember those are not compliant with the GDPR to begin with). This will also make Facebook and similar monopolies less toxic as they'd have to either obey the law at a loss or start charging for their services, opening themselves up to competition.

189 points by shivbhatt 5y ago

They keep doing these things that are ostensibly aimed at hurting Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. But the effect of their actions just entrenches those big players, who have the money and the legal teams and the resources, such that the added regulatory burden widens their moats and suppresses upstart competition.

thakoppno 5y ago
Perhaps it slows down bigger tech companies ability to innovate. My tech co has spent a significant amount of energy complying with GDPR and CCPA the last couple years while the products have received less and less feature improvements. A brand new entrant would likely bolt on compliance to their innovative product once it reached critical mass, not before.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  The real result is preventing smaller players from emerging. Big tech can easily deal with regulations, they have money. A new social network? It doesn't stand a chance, especially if they raised money in Europe. I wonder if Big Tech will bail out the EU once they collapse on their debts.

streamofdigits 5y ago

What is it with the British Isles and their "job specialization" in arbitraging / milking the economy of continental Europe? From the financial rent seeking of London, to the tax and privacy regulatory arbitrages of Ireland the same pattern of exploiting arbitrarily erected information walls to evade scrutiny and accountability. Of course this is a tango that takes three to dance...

s_dev 5y ago
>What is it with the British Isles It's not a British Isle -- it's an Irish one. Great Britain refers to the main island composing England, Scotland and Wales. The Irish isle of Ireland is composed of the two Irelands (Ireland and Northern Ireland). The 'British Isles' term is disputed by many Irish people. The reason it's not a geographic term is because it's not a river -- Britain is a geopolitical entity not a purely geographic one. The fact the Ireland was head of the GDPR for the EU was merely an odd coincidence and has been rectified. You won't many upset Irish people over this.
- tremon 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles > The British Isles are a group of islands in the North Atlantic off the north-western coast of continental Europe, consisting of the islands of Great Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Hebrides and over six thousand smaller islands. [They] include two sovereign states, the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
  - anonymousDan 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute No-one in Ireland would refer to them as the British Isles.
    - dangerface 5y ago
      I do
      - overscore 5y ago
        No-one is obviously hyperbole, but it's extremely uncommon in Ireland. It's a shortcut to start an argument, for sure.

nivenkos 5y ago

How about actually supporting the European Tech industry instead of just adding endless bureaucracy? Ban Oracle and Microsoft from public procurement and start supporting the European equivalent of Baidu or Yandex. With ARM (prior to the acquisition), Linux, MariaDB, etc. - Europe was in a great position to do this. We need to stop this digital colonialism where massive, monopolistic US corporations pay no taxes in Europe, and then take all the profits back to the US where they pay 3x the salaries - only supporting the US economy.

nob0dyasked 5y ago
Why judging things by their capacity to pay taxes? Taxes are about the least thing that matters for society. You complain about incompetent bureaucracy but who do you think manages taxes? Good service, privacy, innovation, these are the questions.
tester34 5y ago
I'd rather ban fb, twitter, tiktok
- spodek 5y ago
  Calling them tech associates them with inventors and people who want to improve life. The Sackler family and Purdue Pharma is a more accurate association. They purport to help and in some situation they do. We all love cat videos and notes from mom and dad. But they make money from addicting people. Whatever technologies they create serve that mission. They're not opposed to improving the quality of users' lives, but that's a side effect. Mostly they relieve craving in ways that recreate it.
TX0098812 5y ago
> How about actually supporting the European Tech industry instead of just adding endless bureaucracy? Their power is to make rules, so they will make rules because it is all they know how to do. Leaving things alone is often the most difficult (and important) thing to do.
- 5y ago

kostyal 5y ago

The world's countries at a party, tech edition: US: We'll bring the software! China: We'll bring the hardware! EU: We'll bring the regulation!

uhorb 5y ago
Ah yes, the country of the European Union
- afiori 5y ago
  Categories are created for people not people for categoried https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-made-for-man-not-man-for-the-categories/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-ma...
- kostyal 5y ago
  it's a joke you pedant
- r8d7u3h3 5y ago
  Frankly, given the primacy of EU law it's strange to me that EU members feel like they really are countries anymore.
  - uhorb 5y ago
    From my perspective, EU law does not play the most dominant role in everyday life. Apart from the big (or super silly) changes, it’s often more of a news maker. Take that plus big cultural differences (most notably: not being able to understand each other’s language), and you get a feeling of own nationalities.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    There are still so many cultural and legislative differences between countries that people don't feel Europeans, they identify with the individual country. The UK was definitely the country which stood out the most in EU, so after Brexit, the EU lost one furthest away country in its block, in terms of diversity. EU law cover stuff you hardly run into. Sure, you have euros everywhere but they don't regulate how much taxes you pay or how your national health care is managed. All is fine until they start regulating on things that matter. Immigration is definitely one of the first sector where people started noticing they're in the EU, because they're unhappy with the results.

PicassoCTs 5y ago

This is the european equivalent to project golden shield. Establish hostile laws, locking google,amazon and fb out & grow local companies to fill the gap.

sgift 5y ago
Nothing about these laws is specific to foreign companies. It's specific to data abusing companies and if those come from within Europe they get fined too.

joelbluminator 5y ago

Its very hard. Even if you build an EU Facebook that is awesome, how do you make users switch? All the data is in the old Facebook. Not just your profile: groups, pages, marketplace etc etc

Nextgrid 5y ago
Enforcing the GDPR properly would make Facebook as we currently know it unsustainable, so they'd have to charge money, opening themselves up to competition.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  Thats quite harsh though, lots of people rely on Facebook for their business/pages/groups etc. Whats more the U.S can retaliate back since it can be seen as protectionism...
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    I don’t deny that lots of people rely on Facebook. However what the GDPR demands seems absolutely reasonable. All it requires is that the company must be transparent with what data it collects, how it uses it and gives each individual control of whether they want to allow Facebook to collect and use their data for specific purposes. If Facebook can’t sustain itself without stalking everyone, it’s a problem with Facebook, not with the GDPR.
    - joelbluminator 5y ago
      Well since it's gonna destroy Europe not just for Facebook but probably all big U.S tech I don't see why the U.S won't reciprocate with nice tariffs on EU auto industry for instance. It seems quite draconian actually since almost no one complies with GDPR to that extent.

Nextgrid 5y ago

It's about time. Provided the GDPR now actually gets enforced, this would clean up the web from all the obnoxious consent flows (remember those are not compliant with the GDPR to begin with). This will also make Facebook and similar monopolies less toxic as they'd have to either obey the law at a loss or start charging for their services, opening themselves up to competition.