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Can you put all that in a 13.3 inches chassis, make barely no noise when compiling hundred of thousand LoCs and reach 20 hours battery life on standard use? Le

Can you put all that in a 13.3 inches chassis, make barely no noise when compiling hundred of thousand LoCs and reach 20 hours battery life on standard use? Let's compare apples to apples.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mcny 5y ago
I think it is unfair to compare apples to apples. Nobody other than Apple has the M1 chip. You should not judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree. Pick up a recent top of the line desktop processor, possibly an AMD Ryzen 9 or a Threadripper, pair it with an excellent motherboard, power delivery, memory, and storage. Put it in a huge, high airflow case, connect it to a switch (ideally with two Intel based wired Network interfaces) and leave it in the basement. Use key-based authentication to ssh (mosh?) into the desktop. Now your Dell XPS or Thinkpad T series or whatever will run cool and quiet.
- antihero 5y ago
  So instead of a chip, you are spending thousands on an entirely separate machine? We're comparing ability to work at speed and convenience at a specific price point. Apple, for all their flaws, are head and shoulders above the competition at the moment.
  - wayneftw 5y ago
    > Apple, for all their flaws, are head and shoulders above the competition at the moment. ...if you can stand using macOS and if you optimize for working in planes, trains, hotels or in meetings. If you only need 16gb of RAM and one external display. If you like touchpads and if all of your preferred hardware works with it. If all of that, then sure. I like hardware and software that just works without getting in my way and let's me do what I want and Apple has never been able to provide that. Heck, you can't even change the mouse pointer color in macOS without buying a third party app (which might stop working next year). No thanks- give me a PC tower, 2-3 displays, an ergonomic keyboard and a 5 button vertical mouse in a quiet room. I'll have Manjaro/XFCE setup and running circles around an M1 with real containers while you're waiting on virtualized containers or investigating which libs won't compile because they're not ready for the M1 yet. When I came back into the office from the pandemic they told me that some guy with an M1 started working with one of our teams and he got laughed out of the office because nothing worked on it. That's head and shoulders?
    - antihero 5y ago
      You'd laugh at a developer for having issues with their machine? Sounds like an filled with emotionally immature people to be honest. > optimize for working in planes, trains, hotels or in meetings Yes, one of the criteria here is indeed portability. > you can't even change the mouse pointer color in macOS without buying a third party app I have not in 20 years of software development felt the need to change the cursor colour. Is this an accessibility thing? > 2-3 displays, an ergonomic keyboard and a 5 button vertical mouse in a quiet room Other than the extra screens, nothing is stopping you use your own keyboard/mouse with the laptop and choosing your own room. > I'll have Manjaro/XFCE setup and running circles around an M1 with real containers while you're waiting on virtualized containers or investigating which libs won't compile because they're not ready for the M1 yet. There are indeed some teething issues with M1, but those will be solved eventually. Containers being virtualised hasn't caused too many issues. I fail to understand, if you're using arch, why you'd use XFCE over a tiling wm like i3.
- oblio 5y ago
  > I think it is unfair to compare apples to apples. Nobody other than Apple has the M1 chip. You should not judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree. This is super ridiculous. Macs were being smashed to bits by PCs before they switched to Intel, and they were rightfully blasted by techies and the tech press. We don't get to claim that we're not comparing apples to apples because Apple stuff is now more powerful than PCs, for the same form factor. And I say this as a PC guy that will never buy a Mac as long as both Windows and Linux don't run on it 100% reliably (at the same level Windows would run on a Lenovo).
adriancr 5y ago
> Can you put all that in a 13.3 inches chassis, make barely no noise when compiling hundred of thousand LoCs and reach 20 hours battery life on standard use? Apples to apples: Can you change the SSD when it wears out or want an upgrade in a few years?, can it run games?, can it do ML efficiently?, can I use Linux?, how about an eGPU?, how about an OLED or quantum dot display? Sure, most laptops have 10 hour battery life instead of 20, some with vapor chambers have proper cooling and make no noise unless you really push it, CPU performance is probably 10-20% less, but you get so much more for the trade off. People have different needs, if M1 is the best laptop for you, great, but it's not for everyone.
uzakov 5y ago
MacBook pro 16 size: Height: 1.62 cm (0.64 inches) Width: 35.79 cm (14.09 inches) Depth: 24.59 cm (9.68 inches) Weight: 2.0 kg (4.3 pounds) Dell XPS 15 Height: 0.71" (1.8 cm) | 2. Width: 13.57" (344.72 mm) | 3. Depth: 9.06" (230.14 mm) | 4. Starting Weight*: 4 lbs. (1.83 kg) for non-touch with 56Whr battery Size and weight wise they are in a similar category. “make barely no noise when compiling hundred of thousand LoCs” - I haven’t got XPS15 but got MacBook Pro 16 with Intel Chip(2020 model) but whenever my browser is open and I do code compilation my MacBook absolutely makes noise. I don’t have thousand tabs open, use adblocker, privacy DNS to make it easier for my machine to browse internet. Performance: https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/dxf0qp/a_comparison_ma https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/dxf0qp/a_comparison_ma... Would you say this is a fair comparison?
- uzakov 5y ago
  Also used to have XPS 15 in the past
- martpie 5y ago
  I was talking about the M1 package. The 13' MacBook Pro can get crazy loud as well. But yeah, the XPS 15 is an excellent alternative to the MacBook Pro 16!
hansvm 5y ago
I don't think that characterization tells the whole picture. Yes there's some nice engineering that went into it, and it's probably a nice machine for a lot of people, but those extra features aren't anywhere close to a free lunch. Apple themselves don't rate it at 20h even for web browsing, and when you use a real workload like compiling 100ksloc the XPS 15 will handily beat it in battery life. Not to mention you cap out at 16GB of memory.

Can you put all that in a 13.3 inches chassis, make barely no noise when compiling hundred of thousand LoCs and reach 20 hours battery life on standard use? Let's compare apples to apples.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mcny 5y ago

I think it is unfair to compare apples to apples. Nobody other than Apple has the M1 chip. You should not judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree. Pick up a recent top of the line desktop processor, possibly an AMD Ryzen 9 or a Threadripper, pair it with an excellent motherboard, power delivery, memory, and storage. Put it in a huge, high airflow case, connect it to a switch (ideally with two Intel based wired Network interfaces) and leave it in the basement. Use key-based authentication to ssh (mosh?) into the desktop. Now your Dell XPS or Thinkpad T series or whatever will run cool and quiet.

antihero 5y ago
So instead of a chip, you are spending thousands on an entirely separate machine? We're comparing ability to work at speed and convenience at a specific price point. Apple, for all their flaws, are head and shoulders above the competition at the moment.
- wayneftw 5y ago
  > Apple, for all their flaws, are head and shoulders above the competition at the moment. ...if you can stand using macOS and if you optimize for working in planes, trains, hotels or in meetings. If you only need 16gb of RAM and one external display. If you like touchpads and if all of your preferred hardware works with it. If all of that, then sure. I like hardware and software that just works without getting in my way and let's me do what I want and Apple has never been able to provide that. Heck, you can't even change the mouse pointer color in macOS without buying a third party app (which might stop working next year). No thanks- give me a PC tower, 2-3 displays, an ergonomic keyboard and a 5 button vertical mouse in a quiet room. I'll have Manjaro/XFCE setup and running circles around an M1 with real containers while you're waiting on virtualized containers or investigating which libs won't compile because they're not ready for the M1 yet. When I came back into the office from the pandemic they told me that some guy with an M1 started working with one of our teams and he got laughed out of the office because nothing worked on it. That's head and shoulders?
  - antihero 5y ago
    You'd laugh at a developer for having issues with their machine? Sounds like an filled with emotionally immature people to be honest. > optimize for working in planes, trains, hotels or in meetings Yes, one of the criteria here is indeed portability. > you can't even change the mouse pointer color in macOS without buying a third party app I have not in 20 years of software development felt the need to change the cursor colour. Is this an accessibility thing? > 2-3 displays, an ergonomic keyboard and a 5 button vertical mouse in a quiet room Other than the extra screens, nothing is stopping you use your own keyboard/mouse with the laptop and choosing your own room. > I'll have Manjaro/XFCE setup and running circles around an M1 with real containers while you're waiting on virtualized containers or investigating which libs won't compile because they're not ready for the M1 yet. There are indeed some teething issues with M1, but those will be solved eventually. Containers being virtualised hasn't caused too many issues. I fail to understand, if you're using arch, why you'd use XFCE over a tiling wm like i3.
oblio 5y ago
> I think it is unfair to compare apples to apples. Nobody other than Apple has the M1 chip. You should not judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree. This is super ridiculous. Macs were being smashed to bits by PCs before they switched to Intel, and they were rightfully blasted by techies and the tech press. We don't get to claim that we're not comparing apples to apples because Apple stuff is now more powerful than PCs, for the same form factor. And I say this as a PC guy that will never buy a Mac as long as both Windows and Linux don't run on it 100% reliably (at the same level Windows would run on a Lenovo).

adriancr 5y ago

> Can you put all that in a 13.3 inches chassis, make barely no noise when compiling hundred of thousand LoCs and reach 20 hours battery life on standard use? Apples to apples: Can you change the SSD when it wears out or want an upgrade in a few years?, can it run games?, can it do ML efficiently?, can I use Linux?, how about an eGPU?, how about an OLED or quantum dot display? Sure, most laptops have 10 hour battery life instead of 20, some with vapor chambers have proper cooling and make no noise unless you really push it, CPU performance is probably 10-20% less, but you get so much more for the trade off. People have different needs, if M1 is the best laptop for you, great, but it's not for everyone.

uzakov 5y ago

MacBook pro 16 size: Height: 1.62 cm (0.64 inches) Width: 35.79 cm (14.09 inches) Depth: 24.59 cm (9.68 inches) Weight: 2.0 kg (4.3 pounds) Dell XPS 15 Height: 0.71" (1.8 cm) | 2. Width: 13.57" (344.72 mm) | 3. Depth: 9.06" (230.14 mm) | 4. Starting Weight*: 4 lbs. (1.83 kg) for non-touch with 56Whr battery Size and weight wise they are in a similar category. “make barely no noise when compiling hundred of thousand LoCs” - I haven’t got XPS15 but got MacBook Pro 16 with Intel Chip(2020 model) but whenever my browser is open and I do code compilation my MacBook absolutely makes noise. I don’t have thousand tabs open, use adblocker, privacy DNS to make it easier for my machine to browse internet. Performance: https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/dxf0qp/a_comparison_ma https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/dxf0qp/a_comparison_ma... Would you say this is a fair comparison?

uzakov 5y ago
Also used to have XPS 15 in the past
martpie 5y ago
I was talking about the M1 package. The 13' MacBook Pro can get crazy loud as well. But yeah, the XPS 15 is an excellent alternative to the MacBook Pro 16!

hansvm 5y ago

I don't think that characterization tells the whole picture. Yes there's some nice engineering that went into it, and it's probably a nice machine for a lot of people, but those extra features aren't anywhere close to a free lunch. Apple themselves don't rate it at 20h even for web browsing, and when you use a real workload like compiling 100ksloc the XPS 15 will handily beat it in battery life. Not to mention you cap out at 16GB of memory.