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As someone still in the skeptic camp: what's a good example of a small, effective application that one of those products could help someone to build?

by jka 5y ago

jacquesm 5y ago
One example I've seen up close that was quite impressive was workflow automation in an insurance company. Frequent changes to business models, legislation and customer requirements made flexibility the main driver of their development and the people with the most knowledge were able to directly modify the application. It wasn't even small, it was quite complex, replaced a very large number of spreadsheets and worked - and works - to satisfaction of all participants. Getting that same system built using regular tooling and processes would have cost that company a large multiple and would not have been nearly as flexible.
dagw 5y ago
Do ETL[1] and data analysis applications count? There are several pretty good visual ETL and data analysis tools around that let non-coders write pretty advanced and useful processes. Personally, I consider FME (www.safe.com) one of the greatest pieces of productivity enhancing software I've ever used. That being said, as someone who works with those sorts tools, the quality of the solutions programmers can come up with using those tools tend to far outshines the quality of the solution non-programmers make. There is something about the computational and algorithmic way of thinking that programming teaches that most people who haven't learned how to program have a hard time wrapping their heads around. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extract,_transform,_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extract,_transform,_load
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  >visual ETL The one I've seen, Apache NiFi, is essentially a giant footgun. Giant, cumbersome, and does not deliver on it's promises - requires teams of engineers to make sure anyone won't fuck up the system for everyone else. And of course, possibilities for data loss and duplication are endless.
tyingq 5y ago
In a lot of cases, end users are just providing a replacement for things they did manually, and badly, with emails, spreadsheets, and attachments. The most common pattern I see implemented is a request, tracking, and approval flow. For things like time off, or borrowing equipment, or volunteering for some duty, etc.

As someone still in the skeptic camp: what's a good example of a small, effective application that one of those products could help someone to build?

by jka 5y ago

As someone still in the skeptic camp: what's a good example of a small, effective application that one of those products could help someone to build?

jacquesm 5y ago

One example I've seen up close that was quite impressive was workflow automation in an insurance company. Frequent changes to business models, legislation and customer requirements made flexibility the main driver of their development and the people with the most knowledge were able to directly modify the application. It wasn't even small, it was quite complex, replaced a very large number of spreadsheets and worked - and works - to satisfaction of all participants. Getting that same system built using regular tooling and processes would have cost that company a large multiple and would not have been nearly as flexible.

dagw 5y ago

Do ETL[1] and data analysis applications count? There are several pretty good visual ETL and data analysis tools around that let non-coders write pretty advanced and useful processes. Personally, I consider FME (www.safe.com) one of the greatest pieces of productivity enhancing software I've ever used. That being said, as someone who works with those sorts tools, the quality of the solutions programmers can come up with using those tools tend to far outshines the quality of the solution non-programmers make. There is something about the computational and algorithmic way of thinking that programming teaches that most people who haven't learned how to program have a hard time wrapping their heads around. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extract,_transform,_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extract,_transform,_load

KptMarchewa 5y ago
>visual ETL The one I've seen, Apache NiFi, is essentially a giant footgun. Giant, cumbersome, and does not deliver on it's promises - requires teams of engineers to make sure anyone won't fuck up the system for everyone else. And of course, possibilities for data loss and duplication are endless.

tyingq 5y ago

In a lot of cases, end users are just providing a replacement for things they did manually, and badly, with emails, spreadsheets, and attachments. The most common pattern I see implemented is a request, tracking, and approval flow. For things like time off, or borrowing equipment, or volunteering for some duty, etc.