6 ms·

To be fair, academia everywhere is exploitative and toxic to its members, with exceptions, perhaps, of top level administrative positions - see [0]. So this kin

by arpa 5y ago

To be fair, academia everywhere is exploitative and toxic to its members, with exceptions, perhaps, of top level administrative positions - see [0]. So this kind of exploitative and toxic behavior does not surprise one bit. Who wants to bet that these patents will be created by students for negative pay? [0] https://alexandreafonso.me/2013/11/21/how-academia-resembles-a-drug-gang/ https://alexandreafonso.me/2013/11/21/how-academia-resembles...

musicale 5y ago
As I understand it, it is typical for universities to claim ownership of all graduate student inventions. Faculty can sometimes get a decent cut of royalties, and can also benefit twice if they found a company that uses the patents.
- gspr 5y ago
  > As I understand it, it is typical for universities to claim ownership of all graduate student inventions. I'm highly opposed to a lot of what's described in this thread, and to the tearing down of academia in general. But I don't think it's wholly insane that universities own grad student inventions in all cases. Where I was a grad student, for example, we were regular employees on a fixed-term contract. Sure, we weren't paid stellarly well, but quite decently (maybe 20% below the average for an industry job). At that point I don't think it's weird that the inellectual property we produced (in my case just code that didn't earn them a dime) was theirs.
  - mjevans 5y ago
    This is probably against some WTO or government law; but for a moment set that aside and consider. What if these universities were some kind of public benefit think tank or lab that happened to also be a university? If instead of a profit to general investors any profits had to either be re-invested in research projects or go into the general fund of the national government they operate beneath? With the additional requirement that any gained research become the public domain? Possibly with some of the more dangerous stuff being classified but filed under seal as prior art? PS: Please pay ABOVE prevailing wage to attract the best talent to the advancement of technology.
    - gspr 5y ago
      The idea your proposing sounds great. I'm all for. > PS: Please pay ABOVE prevailing wage to attract the best talent to the advancement of technology. I don't think that's necessary at all. It seems to me that pay is almost never the reason people quit academic research careers. It's the uncertainty, the short contracts, and the necessity of brutal hours in the early career stages. Sure, terrible conditions like these can in some sense be offset by pay, but I suspect everyone is better off if that isn't the mechanism used.
  - hdsidbshs 5y ago
    I made more in one summer interning than I did in a year as a full time RA.
- versteegen 5y ago
  At my university (in NZ), it seems you owned the IP (even if you were on a scholarship awarded by the university itself) unless you were contributing to a university- or industry-led project where there was some other agreement covering IP ownership. However the university across the road apparently were more aggressive, taking ownership of a student's IP whenever they take part in a "University Project group" or used significant university resources. Of course, if the IP was jointly created with anyone (e.g. supervisors) employed by the university (pretty likely!), the university would have a fractional ownership share. Edit: corrected & expanded
biztos 5y ago
> academia everywhere is exploitative and toxic Do you mean "everywhere" in the USA, or everywhere? I have noticed quite different levels and types of dysfunction in different countries, and again between public/private in the US, but then it's been a long time since I had first-hand knowledge so I could be underestimating the similarities. At least in some countries the students aren't paying tuition for the privilege.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dgb23 5y ago
I‘ve worked as an assistant while studying a few years ago. Reasonable pay, interesting work, and a social environment.
jltsiren 5y ago
The academia is institutionally far more diverse than people think. Whatever you may believe about the academia, there is always a country / university / field where things are different. I'm not sure if the academia is actually more toxic or exploitative than the average workplace. The bigger issue is that jobs are geographically scarce. There is usually only one university in the town, and if you don't like it, it's hard to find a new job without relocating. As a consequence, many people feel trapped in a job they don't like.

by arpa 5y ago

musicale 5y ago

As I understand it, it is typical for universities to claim ownership of all graduate student inventions. Faculty can sometimes get a decent cut of royalties, and can also benefit twice if they found a company that uses the patents.

gspr 5y ago
> As I understand it, it is typical for universities to claim ownership of all graduate student inventions. I'm highly opposed to a lot of what's described in this thread, and to the tearing down of academia in general. But I don't think it's wholly insane that universities own grad student inventions in all cases. Where I was a grad student, for example, we were regular employees on a fixed-term contract. Sure, we weren't paid stellarly well, but quite decently (maybe 20% below the average for an industry job). At that point I don't think it's weird that the inellectual property we produced (in my case just code that didn't earn them a dime) was theirs.
- mjevans 5y ago
  This is probably against some WTO or government law; but for a moment set that aside and consider. What if these universities were some kind of public benefit think tank or lab that happened to also be a university? If instead of a profit to general investors any profits had to either be re-invested in research projects or go into the general fund of the national government they operate beneath? With the additional requirement that any gained research become the public domain? Possibly with some of the more dangerous stuff being classified but filed under seal as prior art? PS: Please pay ABOVE prevailing wage to attract the best talent to the advancement of technology.
  - gspr 5y ago
    The idea your proposing sounds great. I'm all for. > PS: Please pay ABOVE prevailing wage to attract the best talent to the advancement of technology. I don't think that's necessary at all. It seems to me that pay is almost never the reason people quit academic research careers. It's the uncertainty, the short contracts, and the necessity of brutal hours in the early career stages. Sure, terrible conditions like these can in some sense be offset by pay, but I suspect everyone is better off if that isn't the mechanism used.
- hdsidbshs 5y ago
  I made more in one summer interning than I did in a year as a full time RA.
versteegen 5y ago
At my university (in NZ), it seems you owned the IP (even if you were on a scholarship awarded by the university itself) unless you were contributing to a university- or industry-led project where there was some other agreement covering IP ownership. However the university across the road apparently were more aggressive, taking ownership of a student's IP whenever they take part in a "University Project group" or used significant university resources. Of course, if the IP was jointly created with anyone (e.g. supervisors) employed by the university (pretty likely!), the university would have a fractional ownership share. Edit: corrected & expanded

biztos 5y ago

> academia everywhere is exploitative and toxic Do you mean "everywhere" in the USA, or everywhere? I have noticed quite different levels and types of dysfunction in different countries, and again between public/private in the US, but then it's been a long time since I had first-hand knowledge so I could be underestimating the similarities. At least in some countries the students aren't paying tuition for the privilege.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

dgb23 5y ago

I‘ve worked as an assistant while studying a few years ago. Reasonable pay, interesting work, and a social environment.

jltsiren 5y ago

The academia is institutionally far more diverse than people think. Whatever you may believe about the academia, there is always a country / university / field where things are different. I'm not sure if the academia is actually more toxic or exploitative than the average workplace. The bigger issue is that jobs are geographically scarce. There is usually only one university in the town, and if you don't like it, it's hard to find a new job without relocating. As a consequence, many people feel trapped in a job they don't like.