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>To me, baseball is the only sport where fandom really makes sense. It seems like more realistically, baseball is the only support that you understand enough t

>To me, baseball is the only sport where fandom really makes sense. It seems like more realistically, baseball is the only support that you understand enough to appreciate to this degree? I don't think you can make a legitimate argument that soccer, for example, has less tactical depth and management pressure than baseball?

furyofantares 5y ago
Generally sports that are about controlling the ball (or puck) will be more about superstars and less about teams relative to other games. At any given time one person has the ball and that person has an outsized effect on the play in that moment. If one player is significantly better than the rest of the team, you can make sure they're the one doing most of the playing. With baseball the pitcher of course plays a similar role, they have a major outsized effect since they are involved in every single defensive play, and in a critical way. But they can't physically play very much. And then on offense the best you can do is put your best folks at the start of the lineup so they get an extra at-bat over the course of a game. (Of course none of this justifies the claim that only in baseball does team-fandom make sense; fandom isn't a logical construct to begin with and doesn't need some logical reason to exist.)
nickysielicki 5y ago
That's probably fair. Soccer is a great example that I wasn't really considering as an American. That being said, if you haven't seen the movie Moneyball, I'd recommend it. Baseball was truly transformed by computerized statistics, and because baseball is basically decided as a series of batter-pitcher matchups, it lends itself to being predictable in a way that other sports can't be. Baseball is the monte carlo simulation of sports.
- Sebguer 5y ago
  Yes, Moneyball's exceptional. There's a great book about similar influences on soccer, called Soccernomics. :)
- piva00 5y ago
  The German National Football team employed a bunch of computerised statistical analysis for the 2014 World Cup to play their matches. They literally enhanced their tactical and strategical plays through AI.
ipaddr 5y ago
Soccer does have less management pressure induced strategy because the rules and flow of the game demand that. Soccer is about flow not stoppages so you only can sub 3 players and the game doesn't stop as much with injury time added on later. Players are being asked to make more meta decisions. Doesn't make fandom only make sense though in baseball. Fandom is so much bigger in soccer, it includes national struggles and regional struggles and is so engrained in local culture. Soccer hooliganism exists where baseball hooliganism doesn't.. baseball has a long term view on passionate (if my team loses it is okay because we have 160 more) where in soccer one goal decides a match and every match means something always to some group of people.
- Sebguer 5y ago
  Right, but in soccer it's the coach's decision what positions are even being played on the field. In my opinion, the combination of player's individual agency straining against a manager/head coach's /system/ makes it even more challenging.

furyofantares 5y ago

Generally sports that are about controlling the ball (or puck) will be more about superstars and less about teams relative to other games. At any given time one person has the ball and that person has an outsized effect on the play in that moment. If one player is significantly better than the rest of the team, you can make sure they're the one doing most of the playing. With baseball the pitcher of course plays a similar role, they have a major outsized effect since they are involved in every single defensive play, and in a critical way. But they can't physically play very much. And then on offense the best you can do is put your best folks at the start of the lineup so they get an extra at-bat over the course of a game. (Of course none of this justifies the claim that only in baseball does team-fandom make sense; fandom isn't a logical construct to begin with and doesn't need some logical reason to exist.)

nickysielicki 5y ago

That's probably fair. Soccer is a great example that I wasn't really considering as an American. That being said, if you haven't seen the movie Moneyball, I'd recommend it. Baseball was truly transformed by computerized statistics, and because baseball is basically decided as a series of batter-pitcher matchups, it lends itself to being predictable in a way that other sports can't be. Baseball is the monte carlo simulation of sports.

Sebguer 5y ago
Yes, Moneyball's exceptional. There's a great book about similar influences on soccer, called Soccernomics. :)
piva00 5y ago
The German National Football team employed a bunch of computerised statistical analysis for the 2014 World Cup to play their matches. They literally enhanced their tactical and strategical plays through AI.

ipaddr 5y ago

Soccer does have less management pressure induced strategy because the rules and flow of the game demand that. Soccer is about flow not stoppages so you only can sub 3 players and the game doesn't stop as much with injury time added on later. Players are being asked to make more meta decisions. Doesn't make fandom only make sense though in baseball. Fandom is so much bigger in soccer, it includes national struggles and regional struggles and is so engrained in local culture. Soccer hooliganism exists where baseball hooliganism doesn't.. baseball has a long term view on passionate (if my team loses it is okay because we have 160 more) where in soccer one goal decides a match and every match means something always to some group of people.

Sebguer 5y ago
Right, but in soccer it's the coach's decision what positions are even being played on the field. In my opinion, the combination of player's individual agency straining against a manager/head coach's /system/ makes it even more challenging.