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>Replace "bitch" with an ethnic slur. Do you still feel the same way? No, because it's not the same thing. Saying a woman is a bitch is a far cry from saying

by danssig 15y ago

>Replace "bitch" with an ethnic slur. Do you still feel the same way? No, because it's not the same thing. Saying a woman is a bitch is a far cry from saying all women are (though granted, his choice of having a generic woman with a blanked out face was bad). >I think reasonable people should not use it with so little context in a professional presentation. I never said the presenter was reasonable, in fact I said the opposite. But that's a problem with him and the proper response is to assume he's not very mature. A random woman in the audience getting offended is silly and useless. He wasn't talking to or about her specifically.

scott_s 15y ago
That's exactly what I'm trying to say: in some contexts, "bitch" does have that connotation towards the group. It's not a simple word to use.
- danssig 15y ago
  Surely the world would at least need to be "bitches" to have group connotations?
jtheory 15y ago
> A random woman in the audience getting offended is silly and useless. I don't think this is how "getting offended" works. She felt angry and offended, not because it served a purpose, but because that's how she felt. Are you only offended when it's useful? I think I'd have been pretty irritated by the presentation as well (and I'm a guy), which suggests to me that her reaction wasn't some personal idiosyncrasy. Kagan should, in fact, pay some attention to what happened here & why, if he wants to be invited to give more important talks. And if he does or has been thinking about that, that would be useful, after all.
- danssig 15y ago
  Kagan's mistake here wasn't that it was offensive. I don't think there was a rational reason for anyone besides his ex-girlfriends to get offended about this and there's no point in bothering with people who look for reasons to be offended. His mistake was that this made him look petty and childish ("Oh look at me, I'm in front of people so now I can call people I'm mad at names!") while serving no positive purpose.

by danssig 15y ago

scott_s 15y ago

That's exactly what I'm trying to say: in some contexts, "bitch" does have that connotation towards the group. It's not a simple word to use.

danssig 15y ago
Surely the world would at least need to be "bitches" to have group connotations?

jtheory 15y ago

> A random woman in the audience getting offended is silly and useless. I don't think this is how "getting offended" works. She felt angry and offended, not because it served a purpose, but because that's how she felt. Are you only offended when it's useful? I think I'd have been pretty irritated by the presentation as well (and I'm a guy), which suggests to me that her reaction wasn't some personal idiosyncrasy. Kagan should, in fact, pay some attention to what happened here & why, if he wants to be invited to give more important talks. And if he does or has been thinking about that, that would be useful, after all.

danssig 15y ago
Kagan's mistake here wasn't that it was offensive. I don't think there was a rational reason for anyone besides his ex-girlfriends to get offended about this and there's no point in bothering with people who look for reasons to be offended. His mistake was that this made him look petty and childish ("Oh look at me, I'm in front of people so now I can call people I'm mad at names!") while serving no positive purpose.