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You don’t need to know “how computers actually work” to write code in high-level languages. Those are too abstracted away from the hardware and OS. PHP and JS

You don’t need to know “how computers actually work” to write code in high-level languages. Those are too abstracted away from the hardware and OS. PHP and JS are not considered low-quality languages. They are low-hanging fruit for amateurs to write low-quality software. Yes, people who don’t really know what they’re doing can make money with PHP and JS, just like people who don’t know about food, cooking, nutrition can run a restaurant. That’s not really a good argument for low-code, though.

mrtksn 5y ago
JS and PHP are often a joke due to their inconsistencies. Anyway, these are also low-code languages. They are not low hanging fruits because of the syntax or the features but because of the API and boilerplate geared towards specific domain. These almost get out of the way of the people who are not fascinated by the technology itself but by the product they are building. It’s so easy to use JS and PHP to solve a problem. For PHP, you simply wrote your code and put in a folder in a LAMP machine and it works. JS is even easier, you open the developer tools in your favorite browser and there you have it. Instantly start working on your idea.
- gregjor 5y ago
  I’m not unfamiliar with PHP and JS. Those account for about 90% of my work, and have for over a decade. Every language has its inconsistencies. No question PHP and JS have their faults. That’s what happens when a language gets popular (i.e. actually used rather than just argued about in programmer forums) and the deployed code base grows faster than the developers can “fix” the language. Back-compatibility then imposes real constraints. This happened with C, C++, and SQL too, and every language people actually use to write code with any value. The only joke is smug programmers not getting that we can’t go back in time and fix problems obvious in hindsight unless we’re writing class assignments or hobby projects in Haskell. I make a good living maintaining and rewriting the first drafts of PHP and JS code written by people who let a bit too much get out of their way. Usually they run into problems of scale, security, maintainability. If you think deploying a real app that has business value amounts to dropping some PHP files in a folder you should keep my email for when that doesn’t work out. I hope the ransomware hackers don’t find your code first.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    I don’t see why you are offended. I love JS but here it is 20min of programming jokes in the expense of JS: https://youtu.be/et8xNAc2ic8 https://youtu.be/et8xNAc2ic8 As it comes to PHP, I don’t say that you can do everything by a single PHP file in a web server folder(actually, you can but not comfortably). I’m trying to illustrate it’s low-code nature. There are no other languages that are that easy to start solving your problem with. Okay, maybe Python. The newer no-code or low-code tools have the same spirit. They are abstraction layers targeting a domain. These days there’s plenty you can do by programming visually without any knowledge of programming languages. Not everything needs to scale for throughput.
    - gregjor 5y ago
      I’m not offended, I have no investment in those languages, or any language. I just don’t agree. PHP is easy for beginners because of the tooling, or lack of. As you wrote you can just put PHP files in the right folder and there’s your “Hello, world” web page. The language itself is no less capable and sophisticated than any other C-family language, and PHP’s huge (and inconsistent) standard library goes a long way. But getting a demo or tutorial page up is not software development. You have to write actual code to make even a simple CRUD app, plus understand something about databases. It’s not low code. You can maybe learn JS in the browser console but that’s not developing anything useful. To run JS on the server you need node and npm and the skills to get that all working. Not low code either. These are low bar to entry languages/ecosystems but they are not low code/no code solutions.

mrtksn 5y ago

JS and PHP are often a joke due to their inconsistencies. Anyway, these are also low-code languages. They are not low hanging fruits because of the syntax or the features but because of the API and boilerplate geared towards specific domain. These almost get out of the way of the people who are not fascinated by the technology itself but by the product they are building. It’s so easy to use JS and PHP to solve a problem. For PHP, you simply wrote your code and put in a folder in a LAMP machine and it works. JS is even easier, you open the developer tools in your favorite browser and there you have it. Instantly start working on your idea.

gregjor 5y ago
I’m not unfamiliar with PHP and JS. Those account for about 90% of my work, and have for over a decade. Every language has its inconsistencies. No question PHP and JS have their faults. That’s what happens when a language gets popular (i.e. actually used rather than just argued about in programmer forums) and the deployed code base grows faster than the developers can “fix” the language. Back-compatibility then imposes real constraints. This happened with C, C++, and SQL too, and every language people actually use to write code with any value. The only joke is smug programmers not getting that we can’t go back in time and fix problems obvious in hindsight unless we’re writing class assignments or hobby projects in Haskell. I make a good living maintaining and rewriting the first drafts of PHP and JS code written by people who let a bit too much get out of their way. Usually they run into problems of scale, security, maintainability. If you think deploying a real app that has business value amounts to dropping some PHP files in a folder you should keep my email for when that doesn’t work out. I hope the ransomware hackers don’t find your code first.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  I don’t see why you are offended. I love JS but here it is 20min of programming jokes in the expense of JS: https://youtu.be/et8xNAc2ic8 https://youtu.be/et8xNAc2ic8 As it comes to PHP, I don’t say that you can do everything by a single PHP file in a web server folder(actually, you can but not comfortably). I’m trying to illustrate it’s low-code nature. There are no other languages that are that easy to start solving your problem with. Okay, maybe Python. The newer no-code or low-code tools have the same spirit. They are abstraction layers targeting a domain. These days there’s plenty you can do by programming visually without any knowledge of programming languages. Not everything needs to scale for throughput.
  - gregjor 5y ago
    I’m not offended, I have no investment in those languages, or any language. I just don’t agree. PHP is easy for beginners because of the tooling, or lack of. As you wrote you can just put PHP files in the right folder and there’s your “Hello, world” web page. The language itself is no less capable and sophisticated than any other C-family language, and PHP’s huge (and inconsistent) standard library goes a long way. But getting a demo or tutorial page up is not software development. You have to write actual code to make even a simple CRUD app, plus understand something about databases. It’s not low code. You can maybe learn JS in the browser console but that’s not developing anything useful. To run JS on the server you need node and npm and the skills to get that all working. Not low code either. These are low bar to entry languages/ecosystems but they are not low code/no code solutions.