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The EU has a larger population and land mass than the US. The EU has similar universities, mature financial systems and a common cultural heritage (Western Civ)

by pm90 5y ago

The EU has a larger population and land mass than the US. The EU has similar universities, mature financial systems and a common cultural heritage (Western Civ) with the US. Why is the EU not an economic and military superpower?

chrisseaton 5y ago
> Why is the EU not an economic and military superpower? Best I can tell, mix of apathy, resentment towards people who work hard, and generally smaller ambition and perspective. We have the same problem in the UK so it's not just the EU.
mxschumacher 5y ago
The EU is not a nation, but a supranational entity that binds countries that have similar goals and values. It's an amazing achievement for a continent that has seen millennia of internal war. Economically, the EU is very powerful and influential. It exerts influence through trade agreements, standards and sanctions. Individual member states have capable nuclear arsenals and are actively engaged in missions around the world.
oezi 5y ago
But Europe is fulfilling a lot of promises. No war for over 70 years. Free access to Healthcare, education. Safety. Less people in prison, less homicides. Less people in poverty. We learned the hard way that having military superpowers can lead to a lot of misery. Since financial markets are open for anyone to invest in anything (pretty much), I also don't get why it matters where market cap is created. For instance: Tesla has more market cap than a lot of European ICE competitors. But what VW contributes to European GDP still is much bigger than Tesla's contribution.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > But Europe is fulfilling a lot of promises. No war for over 70 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#21st_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#21...
  - IkmoIkmo 5y ago
    Now try a list of conflicts in the EU instead of in Europe.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      They said 'Europe' not the 'EU'.
      - IkmoIkmo 5y ago
        You're being pedantic, Europe and EU are colloquially used interchangeably sometimes, but clearly it was obvious the EU was meant here. In the same way that when you say 'America invaded Iraq' I'm not expecting you're talking about Mexico here. It's quite obvious when someone's talking about 'fulfilling promises in Europe relating to 70 years of non-war' it's referring to one of the central tenants of the European Union's founding, which was to prevent another war among the powers in the EU. It's commonly said, because it's true, that this was one of the great benefits of the EU. The conflicts you reference are essentially all outside the EU, e.g. Armenia, Russia, Kosovo etc. I'm sure you agree that it makes no sense to say that a continent like Europe, Asia, Americas, without any supranational government to ensure it, can "make promises for years not to have a war". It's clearly in reference to the EU, comprising of most of Europe, which is known to have made that commitment of peace among its members in its founding, and has been known to have succeeded in that commitment so far.
dgb23 5y ago
The the majority of nations with the highest living standards, least inequality, highest safety are in Europe. Those are in my personal opinion much better things to strive for than having the largest corporations and military, which I find to be more harmful than useful. There are other things to admire about the US though, like their creativity and scientific excellence.
IkmoIkmo 5y ago
There's more differences between EU countries than the US and Canada, or hell, US and Mexico for that matter. It's 27 countries with their own systems of governance, choosing to work together in a partnership on an internal free movement of people, goods and capital. Yes it's far more integrated than any other group of countries, but they're still separate countries. The budget of the European Union is literally <1% of the EU GDP, for example. Although very influential, we shouldn't overstate its power. Even slight increases of this budget is immediately met with populist rhetoric in each member state, about how all money is flowing towards Brussels which is ostensibly deciding everything. And on a cultural level, there's no real integration whatsoever, not any more than the regular globalist integration that's not European in nature (e.g. speaking English and watching Hollywood movies). As a Dutch person I literally cannot even understand the native language of 97% of the EU population. It's a bit like asking why the United Nations hasn't worked out yet and why there's no single planetary utopian government yet. That having been said, I would say that the EU is an economic and military superpower, but it's not as direct or centralised like a single nation. But count the number of times the EU has been attacked, or count the amount of nuclear-able countries, or the EU countries part of the planetary superpower that is NATO. Of course it's not geared as being a EU military, nor geared towards fighting far-off wars, but it's super powerful for sure. As for Economy, on a PPS basis China, US and EU are all 16% of the world economy, on a nominal basis it's 15, 24, 18. Again, not centrally-steered but definitely a superpower. But for the same reasons you'd say "yes but it's decentralised, not one nation, so it's not a superpower despite all the economic/military might", I say that you can't even expect it to be. After all they're just 27 separate countries with their own governments, 13 of which are smaller than New York City, and California alone being bigger than all but 4 of them.

by pm90 5y ago

chrisseaton 5y ago

> Why is the EU not an economic and military superpower? Best I can tell, mix of apathy, resentment towards people who work hard, and generally smaller ambition and perspective. We have the same problem in the UK so it's not just the EU.

mxschumacher 5y ago

The EU is not a nation, but a supranational entity that binds countries that have similar goals and values. It's an amazing achievement for a continent that has seen millennia of internal war. Economically, the EU is very powerful and influential. It exerts influence through trade agreements, standards and sanctions. Individual member states have capable nuclear arsenals and are actively engaged in missions around the world.

oezi 5y ago

But Europe is fulfilling a lot of promises. No war for over 70 years. Free access to Healthcare, education. Safety. Less people in prison, less homicides. Less people in poverty. We learned the hard way that having military superpowers can lead to a lot of misery. Since financial markets are open for anyone to invest in anything (pretty much), I also don't get why it matters where market cap is created. For instance: Tesla has more market cap than a lot of European ICE competitors. But what VW contributes to European GDP still is much bigger than Tesla's contribution.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> But Europe is fulfilling a lot of promises. No war for over 70 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#21st_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#21...
- IkmoIkmo 5y ago
  Now try a list of conflicts in the EU instead of in Europe.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    They said 'Europe' not the 'EU'.
    - IkmoIkmo 5y ago
      You're being pedantic, Europe and EU are colloquially used interchangeably sometimes, but clearly it was obvious the EU was meant here. In the same way that when you say 'America invaded Iraq' I'm not expecting you're talking about Mexico here. It's quite obvious when someone's talking about 'fulfilling promises in Europe relating to 70 years of non-war' it's referring to one of the central tenants of the European Union's founding, which was to prevent another war among the powers in the EU. It's commonly said, because it's true, that this was one of the great benefits of the EU. The conflicts you reference are essentially all outside the EU, e.g. Armenia, Russia, Kosovo etc. I'm sure you agree that it makes no sense to say that a continent like Europe, Asia, Americas, without any supranational government to ensure it, can "make promises for years not to have a war". It's clearly in reference to the EU, comprising of most of Europe, which is known to have made that commitment of peace among its members in its founding, and has been known to have succeeded in that commitment so far.

dgb23 5y ago

The the majority of nations with the highest living standards, least inequality, highest safety are in Europe. Those are in my personal opinion much better things to strive for than having the largest corporations and military, which I find to be more harmful than useful. There are other things to admire about the US though, like their creativity and scientific excellence.

IkmoIkmo 5y ago

There's more differences between EU countries than the US and Canada, or hell, US and Mexico for that matter. It's 27 countries with their own systems of governance, choosing to work together in a partnership on an internal free movement of people, goods and capital. Yes it's far more integrated than any other group of countries, but they're still separate countries. The budget of the European Union is literally <1% of the EU GDP, for example. Although very influential, we shouldn't overstate its power. Even slight increases of this budget is immediately met with populist rhetoric in each member state, about how all money is flowing towards Brussels which is ostensibly deciding everything. And on a cultural level, there's no real integration whatsoever, not any more than the regular globalist integration that's not European in nature (e.g. speaking English and watching Hollywood movies). As a Dutch person I literally cannot even understand the native language of 97% of the EU population. It's a bit like asking why the United Nations hasn't worked out yet and why there's no single planetary utopian government yet. That having been said, I would say that the EU is an economic and military superpower, but it's not as direct or centralised like a single nation. But count the number of times the EU has been attacked, or count the amount of nuclear-able countries, or the EU countries part of the planetary superpower that is NATO. Of course it's not geared as being a EU military, nor geared towards fighting far-off wars, but it's super powerful for sure. As for Economy, on a PPS basis China, US and EU are all 16% of the world economy, on a nominal basis it's 15, 24, 18. Again, not centrally-steered but definitely a superpower. But for the same reasons you'd say "yes but it's decentralised, not one nation, so it's not a superpower despite all the economic/military might", I say that you can't even expect it to be. After all they're just 27 separate countries with their own governments, 13 of which are smaller than New York City, and California alone being bigger than all but 4 of them.