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I understand that you're pessimistic about this, but overall the human condition has gotten better as the population has grown.

beforeolives 5y ago
Might be more accurate to say that population has grown since living conditions have gotten better.
- chromaton 5y ago
  Maybe. Can you provide an example?
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  Actually there is a "demographic transition" in which, midway through, people suddenly realize that they don't need so many farmers and they don't have room in the city for them. In Europe they fired the ovens for these people. In the Middle East and Africa they are still fighting that war.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    The Nazi death camps were because the cities didn't have room for the displaced farmers?!? That's certainly the most... um, "creatively original" historical revisionism I've read in a very long time.
    - PaulHoule 5y ago
      Big picture yeah. In places like Poland to have status was to have land and vice versa so long as there was a solar economy; once people started burning coal and the economy became capital intensive yesterday’s aristocrats were nobodies and people who had previously been low-status doctors, business people and teachers (e.g. Jewish people) were on top. Naturally those aristocrats were not happy about it. This all happened in about one and half human lifetimes and the people involved "wanted their country back". If you look at Lenin vs. the Kulaks or Mao Zhedong vs. the world in both cases they realized their country was on the trailing edge of industrialization and decided they would beat down people in the country to accumulate capital and outgrow "the west". Hitler rode the fear of communism to power.
zelphirkalt 5y ago
Situation of an individual is a very short term view. We are living on credit here and while it seems, that the conditions have become better, we are utterly unprepared for the backlash, which will happen, if we continue down this path. I am more looking at the long term effects here, because I care about future generations too. Another problem with your view is, that you are totally disregarding other species on planet Earth, which are going extinct or become endangered species in this very moment, in which we enjoy that our "condition is better than ever".
- chitowneats 5y ago
  Your second point is irrelevant. Biodiversity is not an intrinsic good.
- chromaton 5y ago
  Yes, humans are #1 in my book. But consider that as technology advances we have less need to disturb the natural environment. I don't think we're living on credit forever as productivity/technology has improved over time.

beforeolives 5y ago

Might be more accurate to say that population has grown since living conditions have gotten better.

chromaton 5y ago
Maybe. Can you provide an example?
PaulHoule 5y ago
Actually there is a "demographic transition" in which, midway through, people suddenly realize that they don't need so many farmers and they don't have room in the city for them. In Europe they fired the ovens for these people. In the Middle East and Africa they are still fighting that war.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  The Nazi death camps were because the cities didn't have room for the displaced farmers?!? That's certainly the most... um, "creatively original" historical revisionism I've read in a very long time.
  - PaulHoule 5y ago
    Big picture yeah. In places like Poland to have status was to have land and vice versa so long as there was a solar economy; once people started burning coal and the economy became capital intensive yesterday’s aristocrats were nobodies and people who had previously been low-status doctors, business people and teachers (e.g. Jewish people) were on top. Naturally those aristocrats were not happy about it. This all happened in about one and half human lifetimes and the people involved "wanted their country back". If you look at Lenin vs. the Kulaks or Mao Zhedong vs. the world in both cases they realized their country was on the trailing edge of industrialization and decided they would beat down people in the country to accumulate capital and outgrow "the west". Hitler rode the fear of communism to power.

zelphirkalt 5y ago

Situation of an individual is a very short term view. We are living on credit here and while it seems, that the conditions have become better, we are utterly unprepared for the backlash, which will happen, if we continue down this path. I am more looking at the long term effects here, because I care about future generations too. Another problem with your view is, that you are totally disregarding other species on planet Earth, which are going extinct or become endangered species in this very moment, in which we enjoy that our "condition is better than ever".

chitowneats 5y ago
Your second point is irrelevant. Biodiversity is not an intrinsic good.
chromaton 5y ago
Yes, humans are #1 in my book. But consider that as technology advances we have less need to disturb the natural environment. I don't think we're living on credit forever as productivity/technology has improved over time.