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Actually on gdp alone there is enough money in the US for everyone to have a living wage… checkout northern euros or Australia for example of what that looks li

Actually on gdp alone there is enough money in the US for everyone to have a living wage… checkout northern euros or Australia for example of what that looks like. The problem with the fed stimulus was the benefits too large corps.

RealDeal123 5y ago
US GDP has been lower than China GDP since 2019 and if anything the pandemic accelerated the process of Chinese economic outpacing the US economy. In China there is enough money for everyone to have living wage too. And you pay for you healthcare in China too even though their GDP is enough to cover it for all Chinese citizens. Apparently they are focusing on the big picture, i.e. becoming No.1 and surpassing US by a long shot. Making our currency inflate at 5% a year means we need to deduct that 5% from our GDP growth for that year -- its economics 101.
- onethought 5y ago
  You want to use China as an example? Sure! China has the fastest growing and largest middle class (or middle income earners) in the world. They prove exactly the point I’m making. There will come a point in time where there are less people (%) living in poverty in China than in the US if you follow the current trend lines. Also you are only kind of right with “you pay for healthcare”. It’s heavily subsidised… compared with the US.
  - RealDeal123 5y ago
    Your assumptions are totally incorrect. US has the most subsidized healthcare in the world by GDP. That's for starters. Second, I gave you hard data. What do you give me? Your wishful thinking that China will adhere to your wishes? And start paying for nothing? The Party doesn't pay for nothing. In China you work. And you pay for your doctor.
    - onethought 5y ago
      Why is us health care so expensive then? In Australia drs and hospitals are free… there is no cost. How do you subsidise more than that? In the US I’ve used the hospital system once (minor treatment, no over night stay) my insurance paid $4000+ usd. In China I’ve used the hospital system for a fairly serious physical injury and was treated very quickly, couple hours and I paid ~$600 rmb.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        > In China I’ve used the hospital system for a fairly serious physical injury and was treated very quickly, couple hours and I paid ~$600 rmb. What does "~$600 rmb" mean? That '$' character is usually called a dollar sign. Do you mean "about US$ 600, but in Renminbi"; or are you just using the dollar sign as a general currency sign, to say "about 600 Renminbi"?
        onethought 5y ago
        600 rmb. Emphasising my point what does $150USD get you on an American hospital - maybe a Tylenol?
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > US has the most subsidized healthcare in the world by GDP. No. Just... No, absolutely not. That's among the most factually incorrect statements I've seen anywhere online, let alone on HN. Why would you even write something like that; are you really so utterly ill-informed, or just plain lying?
      - onethought 5y ago
        I think in a really stupid way, it’s correct. As in: The US spend more on healthcare as a percentage of gdp. But it pretends that capital efficiency between government spending is equal. As Australia shows: free hospitals for less per/capita(or gdp) spending than the US…
- munk-a 5y ago
  China achieving an equivalent standard of living would probably not work out so well for the authoritarian government there - but it would work out surprisingly well for Marxism. Actually equalizing US and Chinese wages would lead to an extreme acceleration of other areas with depressed wages and, potentially, lead to the world becoming more equal in wages without the current assumed approach - that US wages will deflate quite significantly. A world where China elevates itself to the US's level is one we should celebrate in the west as it means we need to suffer less ourselves. Also, the world is well beyond being a zero sum game economically, most of the biggest economic drivers these days are "silly and irrelevant" things like Facebook, Banking and the service industry. All the world can be well off.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    >China achieving an equivalent standard of living would probably not work out so well for the authoritarian government there That myth has been disproven long ago. Achieving a high standard of living and level of education does not magically cause people to pour into the streets and protest against their authoritarian governments. >A world where China elevates itself to the US's level is one we should celebrate in the west as it means we need to suffer less ourselves. A world where Xi Jinping is in charge of the global economy is a world where fundamental dignity is stripped from anyone who isn't Han, white-collar, hyper-nationalistic and living on the East Coast of Mainland China. Many nations in Asia are gearing up economically and militarily to make sure this cannot happen.
    - onethought 5y ago
      This is mild fear mongering - I’m skeptical of Xi myself. But You are projecting the colonial powers’ treatment of the world onto a nation that has never done anything close to what you describe.
      - RealDeal123 5y ago
        People are the same. China is very well known for its extreme nationalistic tendencies. The Party to stay in power must be really, really to the right in terms on nationalism. Without nationalism the Party has no chance staying in power. Read up on the topic. And yes, they treat their minorities extremely bad. Including concentration camps for Ughurs. US compared to them is a pure equality heaven.
nightski 5y ago
That is too simplistic view of the economy. You can't allocate all revenue to payroll. That's not how business or the economy works.
- standardUser 5y ago
  But it is fair to say that economies that look remarkably like our own are able to support higher wages with no catastrophic downsides. The same argument goes for universal healthcare, family and sick leave, etc.
  - nightski 5y ago
    No I don't think that is fair at all and I feel that you need a source that dives deep into the details because it is far more complicated than X country's wages > U.S. wages.
    - onethought 5y ago
      Which part do you want to dive deep? High minimum wages? Or universal health care? Australia has both, and a smaller gdp/capita than the US. Happy to dive as deep as you like. On both front, Australia still has effective unions with political representation, and thus corporate interests don’t always win. That’s the main difference with the US.
      - nightski 5y ago
        Stealing from Jeremy Howard on twitter - "The 5 largest companies in the US are all computer software/hardware. Australia's largest company is in mining, and 4 of the next 5 are banks. Australia really needs to join the modern world..." [1] -- On top of this you haven't compared - 1. The quality of life difference between minimum wage workers in those countries 2. The quality of health care between these countries 3. Median house hold income (not everyone is on minimum wage) 4. Differences in taxes and "net" pay 5. The differences in the makeup of the economies and conditions of jobs Honestly the factors are endless and I am not going to spend more time enumerating them all. [1] https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1403627678528200704 https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1403627678528200704

RealDeal123 5y ago

US GDP has been lower than China GDP since 2019 and if anything the pandemic accelerated the process of Chinese economic outpacing the US economy. In China there is enough money for everyone to have living wage too. And you pay for you healthcare in China too even though their GDP is enough to cover it for all Chinese citizens. Apparently they are focusing on the big picture, i.e. becoming No.1 and surpassing US by a long shot. Making our currency inflate at 5% a year means we need to deduct that 5% from our GDP growth for that year -- its economics 101.

onethought 5y ago
You want to use China as an example? Sure! China has the fastest growing and largest middle class (or middle income earners) in the world. They prove exactly the point I’m making. There will come a point in time where there are less people (%) living in poverty in China than in the US if you follow the current trend lines. Also you are only kind of right with “you pay for healthcare”. It’s heavily subsidised… compared with the US.
- RealDeal123 5y ago
  Your assumptions are totally incorrect. US has the most subsidized healthcare in the world by GDP. That's for starters. Second, I gave you hard data. What do you give me? Your wishful thinking that China will adhere to your wishes? And start paying for nothing? The Party doesn't pay for nothing. In China you work. And you pay for your doctor.
  - onethought 5y ago
    Why is us health care so expensive then? In Australia drs and hospitals are free… there is no cost. How do you subsidise more than that? In the US I’ve used the hospital system once (minor treatment, no over night stay) my insurance paid $4000+ usd. In China I’ve used the hospital system for a fairly serious physical injury and was treated very quickly, couple hours and I paid ~$600 rmb.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > In China I’ve used the hospital system for a fairly serious physical injury and was treated very quickly, couple hours and I paid ~$600 rmb. What does "~$600 rmb" mean? That '$' character is usually called a dollar sign. Do you mean "about US$ 600, but in Renminbi"; or are you just using the dollar sign as a general currency sign, to say "about 600 Renminbi"?
      - onethought 5y ago
        600 rmb. Emphasising my point what does $150USD get you on an American hospital - maybe a Tylenol?
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > US has the most subsidized healthcare in the world by GDP. No. Just... No, absolutely not. That's among the most factually incorrect statements I've seen anywhere online, let alone on HN. Why would you even write something like that; are you really so utterly ill-informed, or just plain lying?
    - onethought 5y ago
      I think in a really stupid way, it’s correct. As in: The US spend more on healthcare as a percentage of gdp. But it pretends that capital efficiency between government spending is equal. As Australia shows: free hospitals for less per/capita(or gdp) spending than the US…
munk-a 5y ago
China achieving an equivalent standard of living would probably not work out so well for the authoritarian government there - but it would work out surprisingly well for Marxism. Actually equalizing US and Chinese wages would lead to an extreme acceleration of other areas with depressed wages and, potentially, lead to the world becoming more equal in wages without the current assumed approach - that US wages will deflate quite significantly. A world where China elevates itself to the US's level is one we should celebrate in the west as it means we need to suffer less ourselves. Also, the world is well beyond being a zero sum game economically, most of the biggest economic drivers these days are "silly and irrelevant" things like Facebook, Banking and the service industry. All the world can be well off.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  >China achieving an equivalent standard of living would probably not work out so well for the authoritarian government there That myth has been disproven long ago. Achieving a high standard of living and level of education does not magically cause people to pour into the streets and protest against their authoritarian governments. >A world where China elevates itself to the US's level is one we should celebrate in the west as it means we need to suffer less ourselves. A world where Xi Jinping is in charge of the global economy is a world where fundamental dignity is stripped from anyone who isn't Han, white-collar, hyper-nationalistic and living on the East Coast of Mainland China. Many nations in Asia are gearing up economically and militarily to make sure this cannot happen.
  - onethought 5y ago
    This is mild fear mongering - I’m skeptical of Xi myself. But You are projecting the colonial powers’ treatment of the world onto a nation that has never done anything close to what you describe.
    - RealDeal123 5y ago
      People are the same. China is very well known for its extreme nationalistic tendencies. The Party to stay in power must be really, really to the right in terms on nationalism. Without nationalism the Party has no chance staying in power. Read up on the topic. And yes, they treat their minorities extremely bad. Including concentration camps for Ughurs. US compared to them is a pure equality heaven.

nightski 5y ago

That is too simplistic view of the economy. You can't allocate all revenue to payroll. That's not how business or the economy works.

standardUser 5y ago
But it is fair to say that economies that look remarkably like our own are able to support higher wages with no catastrophic downsides. The same argument goes for universal healthcare, family and sick leave, etc.
- nightski 5y ago
  No I don't think that is fair at all and I feel that you need a source that dives deep into the details because it is far more complicated than X country's wages > U.S. wages.
  - onethought 5y ago
    Which part do you want to dive deep? High minimum wages? Or universal health care? Australia has both, and a smaller gdp/capita than the US. Happy to dive as deep as you like. On both front, Australia still has effective unions with political representation, and thus corporate interests don’t always win. That’s the main difference with the US.
    - nightski 5y ago
      Stealing from Jeremy Howard on twitter - "The 5 largest companies in the US are all computer software/hardware. Australia's largest company is in mining, and 4 of the next 5 are banks. Australia really needs to join the modern world..." [1] -- On top of this you haven't compared - 1. The quality of life difference between minimum wage workers in those countries 2. The quality of health care between these countries 3. Median house hold income (not everyone is on minimum wage) 4. Differences in taxes and "net" pay 5. The differences in the makeup of the economies and conditions of jobs Honestly the factors are endless and I am not going to spend more time enumerating them all. [1] https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1403627678528200704 https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1403627678528200704