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AirDrop Anywhere – Making it work on Windows

95 points by g3rv4 5y ago

tyingq 5y ago
"it is unlikely that a non-Apple device has hardware support for adhoc wireless connections between devices. This makes implementation of AirDrop directly on non-Apple devices practically impossible without additional hardware. Instead we’ll implement a proxy..." I get what they mean here, but it has been done. It does require a Wi-Fi card with support for monitor mode and frame injection. OWL did it with an Atheros AR9280. Open drop also requires extracting keys from an Apple device if you want Apple interop. See OWL: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/owl https://github.com/seemoo-lab/owl And Open drop: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/opendrop https://github.com/seemoo-lab/opendrop
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  When you turn your android phone into a wifi hotspot, it creates a lan between your phone and the client. Isn't that enought ?
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Not to send an AirDrop to an Apple phone, no. That requires the adhoc p2p wifi scheme they are using, plus the keys/certs.
- deanward81 5y ago
  Well, that’s why I said it’s unlikely :)! Without purchasing additional hardware it’s not practical to be able to run AirDrop directly on non-Apple devices. There’s no need to extract any Apple keys to be able to receive files, but the public root key appears to be needed able to send files to an Apple device. OWL, OpenDrop and their latest project PrivateDrop (https://github.com/seemoo-lab/privatedrop https://github.com/seemoo-lab/privatedrop) are linked heavily throughout the series - their reverse engineering of the protocol have been absolutely invaluable in building something that works, more or less sanely on non-Apple devices! Huge kudos to them!
  - tyingq 5y ago
    Ah, sure. I didn't mean it as criticism, just to say it's possible with the right wifi chipset.
- rektide 5y ago
  > It does require a Wi-Fi card with support for monitor mode and frame injection. OWL did it with an Atheros AR9280. I feel like Windows is in part to blame for wifi not evolving. The OS does only the most minimal, basic, simplistic wifi operations, so non-Apple laptops end up with wifi hardware supporting only the most basic, simple wifi capabilities. I raelly want p2p connectivity to be better in this world, want our amazing digital connectivity to be distributed, not to move beyond relying on top down ISP based networking. Alas, the wifi hardware available on many laptops is just not there. And even if it were there, it seems unlikely that Windows, Apple, and Google devices are willing to communicate with each other. Everyone has their own proprietary systems (or in Windows case, like the old days where you had to download winsock, it simply has: nothing).
  - WorldMaker 5y ago
    Windows 10 has Miracast built in and has encouraged wifi drivers to support it. Miracast is built on top of Wifi Direct like most of these other p2p tools. Windows also has a hard to find "AirDrop"-like system, but between having no mobile devices anymore and incompatibility with Google and Apple's proprietary systems no one thinks to use it (because it's mostly just useful between Windows devices and at that point you probably have older tools like file shares that perfectly cromulent rather than worrying about physical proximity). A lot of these things also don't get explored as much as they should be because the APIs are in the WinRT side of the fence and Project Reunion is only just now opening WinRT to a lot more classic Windows devs. So Windows doesn't have "nothing" here, it's just trapped between rock (Apple) and hard place (Google).
    - rektide 5y ago
      Excellent point about Miracast. It'd be interesting to see some example code that makes use of any platform SDKs windows has available for doing wifi-p2p connectivity with peers. Going from "this is a capability windows uses" to "this is a capability of the platform folks can use" is another jump in meta-level towards encouraging the virtuous hardware/software adoption cycle.
      - 5y ago
gizdan 5y ago
Seems interesting, and seems the developer has made good progress. This would potentially open up AirDrop for Android too. That would be great!
tyingq 5y ago
Looking forward to "John Anderton" style unsolicited personalized ads bombarding people via AirDrop.
perryizgr8 5y ago
I appreciate the hard work and expertise. But I absolutely do not get the point in reverse engineering a protocol that has been actively closed off. We can all come up with a universal airdrop RFC instead. That effort would be better spent. It's not some magic, it will be a very simple protocol.
- StavrosK 5y ago
  Probably because reverse-engineering it is less effort than rewriting all the clients that Apple has already written.
  - perryizgr8 5y ago
    AFAIK Apple has written exactly 2 clients (Ios and Macos). It shouldn't be too hard to write 2 extra clients. In return you get to design your own open protocol from scratch and don't need to rely on Apple not breaking it at any point of time.
- tpetry 5y ago
  Because AirDrop is already available on millions of Apple devices. If you start a new protocol it will only be available for a small user base and you need to ask Apple, Google and Microsoft to implement it.
  - swiley 5y ago
    I think that, like imessage, you need certificates signed by Apple in order to actually use it with Apple devices. Really you'll be happier if you just ignore everything going on with iOS and Android.
    - deanward81 5y ago
      This is not correct, you can receive files from non-Apple devices without any Apple keys. I’m still working on sending so haven’t uncovered the demons lurking there…
  - 5y ago
gotten09 5y ago
you can try elapp dont know how they do it but it works on iOS Android Windows and Mac https://www.elapp.com/ https://www.elapp.com/
aantix 5y ago
How about making it work on Macs first? Airdrop is the one component that is completely hit or miss for me. So convenient when it just “works”. Infuriating when it doesn’t.

95 points by g3rv4 5y ago

"it is unlikely that a non-Apple device has hardware support for adhoc wireless connections between devices. This makes implementation of AirDrop directly on non-Apple devices practically impossible without additional hardware. Instead we’ll implement a proxy..." I get what they mean here, but it has been done. It does require a Wi-Fi card with support for monitor mode and frame injection. OWL did it with an Atheros AR9280. Open drop also requires extracting keys from an Apple device if you want Apple interop. See OWL: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/owl https://github.com/seemoo-lab/owl And Open drop: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/opendrop https://github.com/seemoo-lab/opendrop

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
When you turn your android phone into a wifi hotspot, it creates a lan between your phone and the client. Isn't that enought ?
- tyingq 5y ago
  Not to send an AirDrop to an Apple phone, no. That requires the adhoc p2p wifi scheme they are using, plus the keys/certs.
deanward81 5y ago
Well, that’s why I said it’s unlikely :)! Without purchasing additional hardware it’s not practical to be able to run AirDrop directly on non-Apple devices. There’s no need to extract any Apple keys to be able to receive files, but the public root key appears to be needed able to send files to an Apple device. OWL, OpenDrop and their latest project PrivateDrop (https://github.com/seemoo-lab/privatedrop https://github.com/seemoo-lab/privatedrop) are linked heavily throughout the series - their reverse engineering of the protocol have been absolutely invaluable in building something that works, more or less sanely on non-Apple devices! Huge kudos to them!
- tyingq 5y ago
  Ah, sure. I didn't mean it as criticism, just to say it's possible with the right wifi chipset.
rektide 5y ago
> It does require a Wi-Fi card with support for monitor mode and frame injection. OWL did it with an Atheros AR9280. I feel like Windows is in part to blame for wifi not evolving. The OS does only the most minimal, basic, simplistic wifi operations, so non-Apple laptops end up with wifi hardware supporting only the most basic, simple wifi capabilities. I raelly want p2p connectivity to be better in this world, want our amazing digital connectivity to be distributed, not to move beyond relying on top down ISP based networking. Alas, the wifi hardware available on many laptops is just not there. And even if it were there, it seems unlikely that Windows, Apple, and Google devices are willing to communicate with each other. Everyone has their own proprietary systems (or in Windows case, like the old days where you had to download winsock, it simply has: nothing).
- WorldMaker 5y ago
  Windows 10 has Miracast built in and has encouraged wifi drivers to support it. Miracast is built on top of Wifi Direct like most of these other p2p tools. Windows also has a hard to find "AirDrop"-like system, but between having no mobile devices anymore and incompatibility with Google and Apple's proprietary systems no one thinks to use it (because it's mostly just useful between Windows devices and at that point you probably have older tools like file shares that perfectly cromulent rather than worrying about physical proximity). A lot of these things also don't get explored as much as they should be because the APIs are in the WinRT side of the fence and Project Reunion is only just now opening WinRT to a lot more classic Windows devs. So Windows doesn't have "nothing" here, it's just trapped between rock (Apple) and hard place (Google).
  - rektide 5y ago
    Excellent point about Miracast. It'd be interesting to see some example code that makes use of any platform SDKs windows has available for doing wifi-p2p connectivity with peers. Going from "this is a capability windows uses" to "this is a capability of the platform folks can use" is another jump in meta-level towards encouraging the virtuous hardware/software adoption cycle.
    - 5y ago

gizdan 5y ago

Seems interesting, and seems the developer has made good progress. This would potentially open up AirDrop for Android too. That would be great!

tyingq 5y ago

Looking forward to "John Anderton" style unsolicited personalized ads bombarding people via AirDrop.

perryizgr8 5y ago

I appreciate the hard work and expertise. But I absolutely do not get the point in reverse engineering a protocol that has been actively closed off. We can all come up with a universal airdrop RFC instead. That effort would be better spent. It's not some magic, it will be a very simple protocol.

StavrosK 5y ago
Probably because reverse-engineering it is less effort than rewriting all the clients that Apple has already written.
- perryizgr8 5y ago
  AFAIK Apple has written exactly 2 clients (Ios and Macos). It shouldn't be too hard to write 2 extra clients. In return you get to design your own open protocol from scratch and don't need to rely on Apple not breaking it at any point of time.
tpetry 5y ago
Because AirDrop is already available on millions of Apple devices. If you start a new protocol it will only be available for a small user base and you need to ask Apple, Google and Microsoft to implement it.
- swiley 5y ago
  I think that, like imessage, you need certificates signed by Apple in order to actually use it with Apple devices. Really you'll be happier if you just ignore everything going on with iOS and Android.
  - deanward81 5y ago
    This is not correct, you can receive files from non-Apple devices without any Apple keys. I’m still working on sending so haven’t uncovered the demons lurking there…
- 5y ago

gotten09 5y ago

you can try elapp dont know how they do it but it works on iOS Android Windows and Mac https://www.elapp.com/ https://www.elapp.com/

aantix 5y ago

How about making it work on Macs first? Airdrop is the one component that is completely hit or miss for me. So convenient when it just “works”. Infuriating when it doesn’t.