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> Real Translation: Covid has made people miserable in their jobs. Small quibble: Covid has shown people how miserable their jobs have always been. All it's t

> Real Translation: Covid has made people miserable in their jobs. Small quibble: Covid has shown people how miserable their jobs have always been. All it's taken is a slight shift, a small perk, here and there, and people see it clear as day, and they want out. White collar workers got work from home: actually, it turns out I can give legal advice while planting basil in my backyard and no one on the conference call either notices or gives a shit. Blue collar workers got unemployment benefits that pay a living wage without needing to work 3 jobs and die of an early heart attack worrying about how they'll feed their kids. I think lots of myth and propaganda about work got blown up in the last year, and it's cause for celebration.

nonotreally6 5y ago
You mean the Fed printed a ton of money and sent it to everyone making less than a certain amount, and the government guaranteed wages for those who no longer wish to work, and caused a labor shortage and inflation. Soon those benefits will be insufficient, due to inflation, if the government continues to print money, and the real wages of the existing wage earners who actually produce value for the good of society by working are eroded and redistributed to those who don't wish to work. If it keeps up, soon we'll all be poor, nobody will earn a living wage, but at least it will be equitable! Don't forget that printing money for stimulus checks is borrowing at greatest expense to the lowest wage earners in order to pay those who choose not to work at all It's not some revealed flaw in capitalism that given short term wages that are the same for working and for doing nothing, that people choose the latter.
- scotuswroteus 5y ago
  That's not what they meant, actually
- onethought 5y ago
  Actually on gdp alone there is enough money in the US for everyone to have a living wage… checkout northern euros or Australia for example of what that looks like. The problem with the fed stimulus was the benefits too large corps.
  - RealDeal123 5y ago
    US GDP has been lower than China GDP since 2019 and if anything the pandemic accelerated the process of Chinese economic outpacing the US economy. In China there is enough money for everyone to have living wage too. And you pay for you healthcare in China too even though their GDP is enough to cover it for all Chinese citizens. Apparently they are focusing on the big picture, i.e. becoming No.1 and surpassing US by a long shot. Making our currency inflate at 5% a year means we need to deduct that 5% from our GDP growth for that year -- its economics 101.
    - onethought 5y ago
      You want to use China as an example? Sure! China has the fastest growing and largest middle class (or middle income earners) in the world. They prove exactly the point I’m making. There will come a point in time where there are less people (%) living in poverty in China than in the US if you follow the current trend lines. Also you are only kind of right with “you pay for healthcare”. It’s heavily subsidised… compared with the US.
      - RealDeal123 5y ago
        Your assumptions are totally incorrect. US has the most subsidized healthcare in the world by GDP. That's for starters. Second, I gave you hard data. What do you give me? Your wishful thinking that China will adhere to your wishes? And start paying for nothing? The Party doesn't pay for nothing. In China you work. And you pay for your doctor.
        onethought 5y ago
        Why is us health care so expensive then? In Australia drs and hospitals are free… there is no cost. How do you subsidise more than that? In the US I’ve used the hospital system once (minor treatment, no over night stay) my insurance paid $4000+ usd. In China I’ve used the hospital system for a fairly serious physical injury and was treated very quickly, couple hours and I paid ~$600 rmb.
- Accujack 5y ago
  >if the government continues to print money, and the real wages of the existing wage earners who actually produce value for the good of society by working are eroded and redistributed to those who don't wish to work. I bet I can guess which group you think you belong to.
- maybelsyrup 5y ago
  > for those who no longer wish to work > to those who don't wish to work > those who choose not to work at all > the same for working and for doing nothing, that people choose the latter You're making my point for me with the arbeit macht frei dog-whistles here. So let me be clear: if "work" is defined as "millions of white and blue collar professional lives before Covid, lives replete with Kafka-esque meaninglessness in the former group and actual, medieval misery in the latter", then what I am saying is: 1. Yes guy, exactly: people no longer wish to "work", by that definition. 2. This is a good and deeply hopeful thing. A society that's serious about human flourishing will grapple with these questions on a deeper level than "what's the unemployment rate?" or "should Amazon be lauded for 'creating jobs?'" Covid has forced us to grapple with them. The usual Cato Institute talking points all involve pointing at the poor and moralizing about how they don't want to work, but comments like yours hold less and less water as time passes, largely because of shit like Covid. The notion - your notion - that there's an enormous class of people out there who are nothing but shiftless layabouts who fundamentally want to leech off of the rest of us is a strawman. While I'm sure there's a parasite or two out there, human beings of every class find deep meaning in labor. But the labor has to be meaningful!! Or, at least, not soul-crushing or immiserating. (And let's not even get into the really fun side-claim I'd make that there are proportionally way more parasites at the top of the socioeconomic pile than the bottom.) So: to the extent that anyone doesn't want to work, they don't want to work because the labor available to them is innovatively life-ruining and in most cases vastly underpaid. To want to work in such conditions when there are suddenly alternative choices, as you imply they should, is to be deeply ill. Actually insane. And more of a reflection of where your heart is than anything else.
  - jgon 5y ago
    I regret that I have but one upvote to give to this comment. Thank you for absolutely crystalizing so many of the thoughts and feelings that have been floating around in my head over the past 15 months.
    - maybelsyrup 5y ago
      Cheers but no need -- I'm just repeating what other smarter people have told me. Take whatever you got from my comment and put it to good use: pass it along to someone else, or just go out into your community and lend a hand to those in need. Good luck
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  >caused a labor shortage and inflation. The US Government printing money is why used cars, washing machines, and hotels are getting more expensive, while other categories stay generally below historical levels?
  - astrange 5y ago
    The only reason people think "inflation" is bad is that it was bad one time in the 70s, except that was actually stagflation, and the cause was running out of a resource (oil) and not because the wage/price increases didn't match up. I guess some people might think Weimar hyperinflation lead to the Nazis, but it didn't really.
- rapind 5y ago
  There’s no “labour” shortage. There’s a “wage” shortage. Companies aren’t really complaining about a labour shortage. They’re complaining that no one wants to work for their ridiculously low pay while the board and CEOs sail around in their yachts.
  - maybelsyrup 5y ago
    Yeah it really is hilarious in a way, because you can take many business owners' constant blathering about the so-called free market and throw it right back in their faces: "No one wants to work for poverty wages in my shitty restaurant!" Sucks bro, that's the market. Raise your wages. "If I raise my wages I can't stay in business!" Sucks bro, that's the market. Make your restaurant less shitty and get more business. Innovate. This is just competition - we like a little competition in America. You're not against America, are you? They're just as reactive / emotional as the liberals they decry for being emotional. I know that schadenfreude isn't a workable foundation for a political outlook, but watching these people become ever so slightly uncomfortable about their position in the world before we inevitably return to pre-Covid status quo ante is worth a good chuckle.
    - YarickR2 5y ago
      You're in for a rudest of all awakenings. You cannot demand salary to be raised without understanding business will be looking elsewhere to fulfill business needs , and will be outsourcing actual labor. Business that can't be outsourced in such conditions (restaurants, hospitality) will be forced to shut down when outsourceable business lays out local workers and replaces them with someone half a world away.
      - whydoibother 5y ago
        Nah. People tried that already with bad results. Not to mention, what happens when the foreigners you are exploiting start demanding the same things the locals are? Not only that, but the social and political ramifications of having not only blue collar workers out of a job, but also the PMC class as well. You want a revolution? Cause that is how you get one.
Accujack 5y ago
>I think lots of myth and propaganda about work got blown up in the last year. Many years of corporations "boiling the frog" and slowly lowering flexibility and not improving pay have been reset. People hadn't noticed, and now they have. It'll probably happen all over again, but at least there's hope for now.
- taurath 5y ago
  Don’t get caught up in the fantasy that it’s stopped in any appreciable way. The hammer is just starting to fall as vaccination rates go up. This is the start of the first battle, not the second act.
  - maybelsyrup 5y ago
    Whether we look back at this moment as fantasy or the beginning of something truly changing won't be the result of some deterministic historical process. It's up to us. Call your congressman, your senator. Meet with coworkers and discuss this stuff. Post shit on the internet and challenge yourself and others to think differently. Go out into the world, even if individual actions are tiny or barely perceptible. The key thing about the world is that someone made it this way. I have to believe that it can be made differently.
    - macromagnon 5y ago
      I doubt you can say some 'one' made the world this way. The present day is the result of historical, economical, scientific, etc. processes that are only partly known by few people. Țhere is a short term greed pushing wages down so in that sense I agree.
      - maybelsyrup 5y ago
        Yes you're right, no one person made it this way - that was a rhetorical efficiecy on my part. I meant some broader human "we" made it this way. People, us.

nonotreally6 5y ago

You mean the Fed printed a ton of money and sent it to everyone making less than a certain amount, and the government guaranteed wages for those who no longer wish to work, and caused a labor shortage and inflation. Soon those benefits will be insufficient, due to inflation, if the government continues to print money, and the real wages of the existing wage earners who actually produce value for the good of society by working are eroded and redistributed to those who don't wish to work. If it keeps up, soon we'll all be poor, nobody will earn a living wage, but at least it will be equitable! Don't forget that printing money for stimulus checks is borrowing at greatest expense to the lowest wage earners in order to pay those who choose not to work at all It's not some revealed flaw in capitalism that given short term wages that are the same for working and for doing nothing, that people choose the latter.

scotuswroteus 5y ago
That's not what they meant, actually
onethought 5y ago
Actually on gdp alone there is enough money in the US for everyone to have a living wage… checkout northern euros or Australia for example of what that looks like. The problem with the fed stimulus was the benefits too large corps.
- RealDeal123 5y ago
  US GDP has been lower than China GDP since 2019 and if anything the pandemic accelerated the process of Chinese economic outpacing the US economy. In China there is enough money for everyone to have living wage too. And you pay for you healthcare in China too even though their GDP is enough to cover it for all Chinese citizens. Apparently they are focusing on the big picture, i.e. becoming No.1 and surpassing US by a long shot. Making our currency inflate at 5% a year means we need to deduct that 5% from our GDP growth for that year -- its economics 101.
  - onethought 5y ago
    You want to use China as an example? Sure! China has the fastest growing and largest middle class (or middle income earners) in the world. They prove exactly the point I’m making. There will come a point in time where there are less people (%) living in poverty in China than in the US if you follow the current trend lines. Also you are only kind of right with “you pay for healthcare”. It’s heavily subsidised… compared with the US.
    - RealDeal123 5y ago
      Your assumptions are totally incorrect. US has the most subsidized healthcare in the world by GDP. That's for starters. Second, I gave you hard data. What do you give me? Your wishful thinking that China will adhere to your wishes? And start paying for nothing? The Party doesn't pay for nothing. In China you work. And you pay for your doctor.
      - onethought 5y ago
        Why is us health care so expensive then? In Australia drs and hospitals are free… there is no cost. How do you subsidise more than that? In the US I’ve used the hospital system once (minor treatment, no over night stay) my insurance paid $4000+ usd. In China I’ve used the hospital system for a fairly serious physical injury and was treated very quickly, couple hours and I paid ~$600 rmb.
Accujack 5y ago
>if the government continues to print money, and the real wages of the existing wage earners who actually produce value for the good of society by working are eroded and redistributed to those who don't wish to work. I bet I can guess which group you think you belong to.
maybelsyrup 5y ago
> for those who no longer wish to work > to those who don't wish to work > those who choose not to work at all > the same for working and for doing nothing, that people choose the latter You're making my point for me with the arbeit macht frei dog-whistles here. So let me be clear: if "work" is defined as "millions of white and blue collar professional lives before Covid, lives replete with Kafka-esque meaninglessness in the former group and actual, medieval misery in the latter", then what I am saying is: 1. Yes guy, exactly: people no longer wish to "work", by that definition. 2. This is a good and deeply hopeful thing. A society that's serious about human flourishing will grapple with these questions on a deeper level than "what's the unemployment rate?" or "should Amazon be lauded for 'creating jobs?'" Covid has forced us to grapple with them. The usual Cato Institute talking points all involve pointing at the poor and moralizing about how they don't want to work, but comments like yours hold less and less water as time passes, largely because of shit like Covid. The notion - your notion - that there's an enormous class of people out there who are nothing but shiftless layabouts who fundamentally want to leech off of the rest of us is a strawman. While I'm sure there's a parasite or two out there, human beings of every class find deep meaning in labor. But the labor has to be meaningful!! Or, at least, not soul-crushing or immiserating. (And let's not even get into the really fun side-claim I'd make that there are proportionally way more parasites at the top of the socioeconomic pile than the bottom.) So: to the extent that anyone doesn't want to work, they don't want to work because the labor available to them is innovatively life-ruining and in most cases vastly underpaid. To want to work in such conditions when there are suddenly alternative choices, as you imply they should, is to be deeply ill. Actually insane. And more of a reflection of where your heart is than anything else.
- jgon 5y ago
  I regret that I have but one upvote to give to this comment. Thank you for absolutely crystalizing so many of the thoughts and feelings that have been floating around in my head over the past 15 months.
  - maybelsyrup 5y ago
    Cheers but no need -- I'm just repeating what other smarter people have told me. Take whatever you got from my comment and put it to good use: pass it along to someone else, or just go out into your community and lend a hand to those in need. Good luck
RC_ITR 5y ago
>caused a labor shortage and inflation. The US Government printing money is why used cars, washing machines, and hotels are getting more expensive, while other categories stay generally below historical levels?
- astrange 5y ago
  The only reason people think "inflation" is bad is that it was bad one time in the 70s, except that was actually stagflation, and the cause was running out of a resource (oil) and not because the wage/price increases didn't match up. I guess some people might think Weimar hyperinflation lead to the Nazis, but it didn't really.
rapind 5y ago
There’s no “labour” shortage. There’s a “wage” shortage. Companies aren’t really complaining about a labour shortage. They’re complaining that no one wants to work for their ridiculously low pay while the board and CEOs sail around in their yachts.
- maybelsyrup 5y ago
  Yeah it really is hilarious in a way, because you can take many business owners' constant blathering about the so-called free market and throw it right back in their faces: "No one wants to work for poverty wages in my shitty restaurant!" Sucks bro, that's the market. Raise your wages. "If I raise my wages I can't stay in business!" Sucks bro, that's the market. Make your restaurant less shitty and get more business. Innovate. This is just competition - we like a little competition in America. You're not against America, are you? They're just as reactive / emotional as the liberals they decry for being emotional. I know that schadenfreude isn't a workable foundation for a political outlook, but watching these people become ever so slightly uncomfortable about their position in the world before we inevitably return to pre-Covid status quo ante is worth a good chuckle.
  - YarickR2 5y ago
    You're in for a rudest of all awakenings. You cannot demand salary to be raised without understanding business will be looking elsewhere to fulfill business needs , and will be outsourcing actual labor. Business that can't be outsourced in such conditions (restaurants, hospitality) will be forced to shut down when outsourceable business lays out local workers and replaces them with someone half a world away.
    - whydoibother 5y ago
      Nah. People tried that already with bad results. Not to mention, what happens when the foreigners you are exploiting start demanding the same things the locals are? Not only that, but the social and political ramifications of having not only blue collar workers out of a job, but also the PMC class as well. You want a revolution? Cause that is how you get one.

Accujack 5y ago

>I think lots of myth and propaganda about work got blown up in the last year. Many years of corporations "boiling the frog" and slowly lowering flexibility and not improving pay have been reset. People hadn't noticed, and now they have. It'll probably happen all over again, but at least there's hope for now.

taurath 5y ago
Don’t get caught up in the fantasy that it’s stopped in any appreciable way. The hammer is just starting to fall as vaccination rates go up. This is the start of the first battle, not the second act.
- maybelsyrup 5y ago
  Whether we look back at this moment as fantasy or the beginning of something truly changing won't be the result of some deterministic historical process. It's up to us. Call your congressman, your senator. Meet with coworkers and discuss this stuff. Post shit on the internet and challenge yourself and others to think differently. Go out into the world, even if individual actions are tiny or barely perceptible. The key thing about the world is that someone made it this way. I have to believe that it can be made differently.
  - macromagnon 5y ago
    I doubt you can say some 'one' made the world this way. The present day is the result of historical, economical, scientific, etc. processes that are only partly known by few people. Țhere is a short term greed pushing wages down so in that sense I agree.
    - maybelsyrup 5y ago
      Yes you're right, no one person made it this way - that was a rhetorical efficiecy on my part. I meant some broader human "we" made it this way. People, us.