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> To make it contemporary: Should I be trying to get into the mind of a Q Conspiracy theorist? An Antivaxer? How many conspiracies do I need delve into and unde

by slibhb 5y ago

> To make it contemporary: Should I be trying to get into the mind of a Q Conspiracy theorist? An Antivaxer? How many conspiracies do I need delve into and understand such that I can make a passionate argument for them? Yes and it's disturbing that you (and many others) have no interest in understanding other people.

UncleOxidant 5y ago
There is no end to conspiracy theories. Why should I be obligated to delve into other people's psychosis? I'm not a psychiatrist. There are many more constructive things to spend time on.
- slibhb 5y ago
  If you were a little more curious, maybe you wouldn't dismiss large swathes of the population as psychotic.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  When such ideas become mainstream enough to start influencing politics, it would be a good idea to try to understand why those ideas have taken root and grown to that level of influence. Even when such ideas are batshit insane, they are almost always indicative of some severe underlying issue. If that issue isn't addressed, then such ideas keep growing and growing and could eventually lead to disaster. That Q Anon and the like are taken seriously by as many people as they appear to be, enough to start influencing mainstream politics, should set off all sorts of alarm bells about the state of our society.
  - UncleOxidant 5y ago
    As I said in another part of the thread: For many of these conspiracy theories the 'understanding' part should probably be more along the lines of epistemic forensics - "What kind of misinformation got them to this point?"
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      I don't think the misinformation is a cause so much as a symptom. The Nazis alleged conspiracy by communists and jews, but that misinformation probably wouldn't have taken root if Germany's economy wasn't burning to the ground because of the Treaty of Versailles. Desperate people sometimes cling to crazy ideologies that promise to relieve their suffering.
  - 8note 5y ago
    They aren't strongly held views -- it's much more interesting to hear about the things they actually believe in rather than today's distraction
  - lawn 5y ago
    There's a difference between trying to understand and explain why crazy ideas take root, and treating the crazy ideas themselves as legitimate. Identify the core issues, absolutely. But trying to explain why the earth isn't flat is a waste of time, as it won't convince the true believers and it will only legitimize the idea.
  - briandear 5y ago
    Q Anon isn’t taken seriously by very many people. It’s a blown-out-of-proportion phenomenon. The left seems to be the one that continues to promote it as if millions of people are paying attention to it. I spend a lot of time on conservative news and opinion sites and Q Anon stuff is never mentioned. Nor are any of the wacky conspiracies taken seriously. But the left loves to use that to discredit opposing viewpoints much in the same way they quickly use the “Nazi” tag when it suits their purposes. As far as “how we got here,” the answer is pretty simple: social media shutting down debate and “fact checkers” who are really “conforming verifiers” who have been given outsized credibility. Did Covid come from a lab, a year ago was “fact checked” by those with conflicts of interest. Yet there wasn’t any actual fact check — it used the opinions of certain officials rather than actual verifiable fact. If Fauci said it didn’t come from a lab, that’s his opinion. But was any data actually presented to dispute the assertion? None. The Appeal To Authority isn’t a valid fact-check. The media literally ignores facts if those facts don’t fit the narrative. And, they use all sorts of rhetorical strategies to discredit the other side. The hatred of all things Trump resulted in media organizations losing all credibility.
netsec_burn 5y ago
Frankly I don't have the time in my day to entertain every perspective and still enjoy life.
vlunkr 5y ago
I think this is unfair. You can try to have empathy and understanding for someone without knowing the intricacies of their beliefs.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ABCLAW 5y ago
>Yes and it's disturbing that you (and many others) have no interest in understanding other people. There's an infinite number of ways you can be wrong; it isn't on everyone to hermetically disprove all wrongs to meaningfully participate in civil society in good faith. It isn't disturbing for people to want to focus on real issues rather than discussing whether or not the president is farming baby blood to enact a global immortal one government future.

by slibhb 5y ago

UncleOxidant 5y ago

There is no end to conspiracy theories. Why should I be obligated to delve into other people's psychosis? I'm not a psychiatrist. There are many more constructive things to spend time on.

slibhb 5y ago
If you were a little more curious, maybe you wouldn't dismiss large swathes of the population as psychotic.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
When such ideas become mainstream enough to start influencing politics, it would be a good idea to try to understand why those ideas have taken root and grown to that level of influence. Even when such ideas are batshit insane, they are almost always indicative of some severe underlying issue. If that issue isn't addressed, then such ideas keep growing and growing and could eventually lead to disaster. That Q Anon and the like are taken seriously by as many people as they appear to be, enough to start influencing mainstream politics, should set off all sorts of alarm bells about the state of our society.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  As I said in another part of the thread: For many of these conspiracy theories the 'understanding' part should probably be more along the lines of epistemic forensics - "What kind of misinformation got them to this point?"
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    I don't think the misinformation is a cause so much as a symptom. The Nazis alleged conspiracy by communists and jews, but that misinformation probably wouldn't have taken root if Germany's economy wasn't burning to the ground because of the Treaty of Versailles. Desperate people sometimes cling to crazy ideologies that promise to relieve their suffering.
- 8note 5y ago
  They aren't strongly held views -- it's much more interesting to hear about the things they actually believe in rather than today's distraction
- lawn 5y ago
  There's a difference between trying to understand and explain why crazy ideas take root, and treating the crazy ideas themselves as legitimate. Identify the core issues, absolutely. But trying to explain why the earth isn't flat is a waste of time, as it won't convince the true believers and it will only legitimize the idea.
- briandear 5y ago
  Q Anon isn’t taken seriously by very many people. It’s a blown-out-of-proportion phenomenon. The left seems to be the one that continues to promote it as if millions of people are paying attention to it. I spend a lot of time on conservative news and opinion sites and Q Anon stuff is never mentioned. Nor are any of the wacky conspiracies taken seriously. But the left loves to use that to discredit opposing viewpoints much in the same way they quickly use the “Nazi” tag when it suits their purposes. As far as “how we got here,” the answer is pretty simple: social media shutting down debate and “fact checkers” who are really “conforming verifiers” who have been given outsized credibility. Did Covid come from a lab, a year ago was “fact checked” by those with conflicts of interest. Yet there wasn’t any actual fact check — it used the opinions of certain officials rather than actual verifiable fact. If Fauci said it didn’t come from a lab, that’s his opinion. But was any data actually presented to dispute the assertion? None. The Appeal To Authority isn’t a valid fact-check. The media literally ignores facts if those facts don’t fit the narrative. And, they use all sorts of rhetorical strategies to discredit the other side. The hatred of all things Trump resulted in media organizations losing all credibility.

netsec_burn 5y ago

Frankly I don't have the time in my day to entertain every perspective and still enjoy life.

vlunkr 5y ago

I think this is unfair. You can try to have empathy and understanding for someone without knowing the intricacies of their beliefs.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ABCLAW 5y ago

>Yes and it's disturbing that you (and many others) have no interest in understanding other people. There's an infinite number of ways you can be wrong; it isn't on everyone to hermetically disprove all wrongs to meaningfully participate in civil society in good faith. It isn't disturbing for people to want to focus on real issues rather than discussing whether or not the president is farming baby blood to enact a global immortal one government future.