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If you want to counteract the narrative bubbles that you're operating in, you need to work hardest to counteract the one that is the default. If you're like mo

If you want to counteract the narrative bubbles that you're operating in, you need to work hardest to counteract the one that is the default. If you're like most Americans, you're probably immersed in left-leaning thought. The Left owns the culture. They own the major institutions that are shaping society through Hollywood, academia, sports entertainment, the music industry, social media, etc. They own the bureaucracy that has pretty much eaten up the US government. Even longtime bastions of the Right like the military, FBI, etc. have been taken over by the Left. If you just consume random media, you're getting the left-leaning perspective. It's the right-leaning perspective that you probably have a deficiency of unless you make a great deal of effort to swim against the current. Take, for example, Haidt's work on analyzing how well different political ideologies understood each other. The bottom line: Moderates and Conservatives understood the Liberal perspective better than Liberals understand other perspectives. https://theindependentwhig.com/haidt-passages/haidt/conservatives-understand-liberals-better-than-liberals-understand-conservatives/ https://theindependentwhig.com/haidt-passages/haidt/conserva... [edit: fixed a typo]

rejectedandsad 5y ago
Most of this is because the cultural tastemakers have long been college educated cosmopolitans, and the modern right has taken an extreme turn that has alienated them. Orange County votes Democrat on the presidential level now! > Even longtime bastions of the Right like the military, FBI, etc. have been taken over by the Left. What? What does this even mean? The idea that the right understands the left better than the right is silly - how many Fox News profiles are there of Whole Foods shopping Democrats in Arlington? Of Black voters in Gwinnett county? Meanwhile, NYTimes did countless stories for four years about rural voters in diners that still like Trump despite the scandal of the week.
- TMWNN 5y ago
  >The idea that the right understands the left better than the right is silly - how many Fox News profiles are there of Whole Foods shopping Democrats in Arlington? Of Black voters in Gwinnett county? Meanwhile, NYTimes did countless stories for four years about rural voters in diners that still like Trump despite the scandal of the week. myfavoritedog's point is that the default position in the Times is of Whole Foods-shopping Democrats in NoVa. You couldn't read a book review, or sports column, without anti-Trump snark suddenly appearing in there regardless of the subject matter (seriously, it was like there was a quota to meet), The pieces you mention invariably * treat the subjects like they're a new, just-discovered animal species * frame their fears and hopes, needs and concerns, in very patronizing ways. Example: <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/us/politics/trump-macho-appeal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/us/politics/trump-macho-a...>, which a) attributed Latin male support for Trump to their desire for the same kind of authoritarian machismo that ruined their home countries (as opposed to the same reasons that other blue-collar workers, Latino or not, voted for Trump) and b) made wanting to provide for one's family sound like a bad thing. Outcome: Trump in 2024 didn't just again outperform expectations with Latinos in 2024 (<https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/trump-latino-voters-2020.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/trump-latino-...>), but also increased his Latin support. (Needless to say, there's never, ever any Times article discussing how Latinos' support for a large welfare state hearkens back to their home countries' social models.) * dismiss those being profiled as aberrations. Example: In 2016 the Clinton-friendly media backfired on Clinton by missing the facts on the ground. If in Ohio—for the past 150 years perhaps the quintessential swing state—and Iowa Trump was 10 points up in the polls, the right conclusion was that the rest of the Midwest was swinging to him too. The wrong conclusion was to come up with imaginary reasons why Ohio is suddenly no longer representative of the region or country (<https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/us/politics/ohio-campaign-trump-clinton.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/us/politics/ohio-campaign...>). One guess on which the press and the Clinton campaign chose.
  - rejectedandsad 5y ago
    > without anti-Trump snark suddenly appearing in there regardless of the subject matter (seriously, it was like there was a quota to meet), This sounds like some sort of victimhood complex. I think you should understand that 54% of the country did not like that man, ever, and we gave outsized influence to the 46% that did at the expense of the otherwise silent majority. Joe Biden blew the doors off turnout in history despite never having blockbuster rallies like Donald Trump or his Democratic rivals. > frame their fears and hopes, needs and concerns, in very patronizing ways I don't really disagree, which should mean they would do the same for working class black folk in the same cities, yes? But no, they don't. > If in Ohio—for the past 150 years perhaps the quintessential swing state—and Iowa Trump was 10 points up in the polls, the right conclusion was that the rest of the Midwest was swinging to him too This is not a good example - when a state stops being within 2-3 points of the national margin (~+0 R in '04, +3 R in '08, +1 R in '12) and starts becoming +10 R and then +12 R in '16 and '20 it does stop being a bellwether.
mrfusion 5y ago
Good point but even if you get the perspective from the right, you’re still in the Overton window that was decided for you by the media.

rejectedandsad 5y ago

Most of this is because the cultural tastemakers have long been college educated cosmopolitans, and the modern right has taken an extreme turn that has alienated them. Orange County votes Democrat on the presidential level now! > Even longtime bastions of the Right like the military, FBI, etc. have been taken over by the Left. What? What does this even mean? The idea that the right understands the left better than the right is silly - how many Fox News profiles are there of Whole Foods shopping Democrats in Arlington? Of Black voters in Gwinnett county? Meanwhile, NYTimes did countless stories for four years about rural voters in diners that still like Trump despite the scandal of the week.

TMWNN 5y ago
>The idea that the right understands the left better than the right is silly - how many Fox News profiles are there of Whole Foods shopping Democrats in Arlington? Of Black voters in Gwinnett county? Meanwhile, NYTimes did countless stories for four years about rural voters in diners that still like Trump despite the scandal of the week. myfavoritedog's point is that the default position in the Times is of Whole Foods-shopping Democrats in NoVa. You couldn't read a book review, or sports column, without anti-Trump snark suddenly appearing in there regardless of the subject matter (seriously, it was like there was a quota to meet), The pieces you mention invariably * treat the subjects like they're a new, just-discovered animal species * frame their fears and hopes, needs and concerns, in very patronizing ways. Example: <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/us/politics/trump-macho-appeal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/us/politics/trump-macho-a...>, which a) attributed Latin male support for Trump to their desire for the same kind of authoritarian machismo that ruined their home countries (as opposed to the same reasons that other blue-collar workers, Latino or not, voted for Trump) and b) made wanting to provide for one's family sound like a bad thing. Outcome: Trump in 2024 didn't just again outperform expectations with Latinos in 2024 (<https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/trump-latino-voters-2020.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/trump-latino-...>), but also increased his Latin support. (Needless to say, there's never, ever any Times article discussing how Latinos' support for a large welfare state hearkens back to their home countries' social models.) * dismiss those being profiled as aberrations. Example: In 2016 the Clinton-friendly media backfired on Clinton by missing the facts on the ground. If in Ohio—for the past 150 years perhaps the quintessential swing state—and Iowa Trump was 10 points up in the polls, the right conclusion was that the rest of the Midwest was swinging to him too. The wrong conclusion was to come up with imaginary reasons why Ohio is suddenly no longer representative of the region or country (<https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/us/politics/ohio-campaign-trump-clinton.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/us/politics/ohio-campaign...>). One guess on which the press and the Clinton campaign chose.
- rejectedandsad 5y ago
  > without anti-Trump snark suddenly appearing in there regardless of the subject matter (seriously, it was like there was a quota to meet), This sounds like some sort of victimhood complex. I think you should understand that 54% of the country did not like that man, ever, and we gave outsized influence to the 46% that did at the expense of the otherwise silent majority. Joe Biden blew the doors off turnout in history despite never having blockbuster rallies like Donald Trump or his Democratic rivals. > frame their fears and hopes, needs and concerns, in very patronizing ways I don't really disagree, which should mean they would do the same for working class black folk in the same cities, yes? But no, they don't. > If in Ohio—for the past 150 years perhaps the quintessential swing state—and Iowa Trump was 10 points up in the polls, the right conclusion was that the rest of the Midwest was swinging to him too This is not a good example - when a state stops being within 2-3 points of the national margin (~+0 R in '04, +3 R in '08, +1 R in '12) and starts becoming +10 R and then +12 R in '16 and '20 it does stop being a bellwether.

mrfusion 5y ago

Good point but even if you get the perspective from the right, you’re still in the Overton window that was decided for you by the media.