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I really despise this trend of uploading your ID and a selfie for verification. I know it makes sense in some legal frameworks, but beyond that I find it invasi

I really despise this trend of uploading your ID and a selfie for verification. I know it makes sense in some legal frameworks, but beyond that I find it invasive and risky (and rude.)

edwinwee 5y ago
It’s not really a “trend”—if you think about it, ID verification is already required when checking into hotels, buying alcohol, or when visiting a bank teller. As more commerce moves online, Stripe Identity was built to significantly reduce the number of organizations and humans that would touch your ID—in a faster, secure way that’s hosted by Stripe (https://support.stripe.com/questions/common-questions-about-stripe-identity#why-id-verification https://support.stripe.com/questions/common-questions-about-...). We are also very direct about collecting consent: https://support.stripe.com/questions/common-questions-about-stripe-identity#verification-consent https://support.stripe.com/questions/common-questions-about-....
- toufka 5y ago
  In very few of those use-cases does the entity 1) _retain_ any of that data, 2) posses an internet-scale database of identities. And as we've all come to know the distinction between "able to surveil" and "collect it all" crosses a threshold to make it of a different kind. If one's mindset is that in general, tech companies, unlike those other entities store it all, then there actually is a recent "trend" to migrate a normal behavior into an abnormally socially adjusted space.
  - sascha_sl 5y ago
    It is already illegal to retain copies of ID cards or even some of the data in many countries. Just requesting a copy without redactions is wandering into a gray area in Germany.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- butt__hugger 5y ago
  Why are you shilling the product you made out of data collection and surveillance if it isn't trendy? What other value proposition is there?
- wyager 5y ago
  One of the nice things about the internet is/was that it requires less bullshit and red tape than many real-life interactions. The internet becoming as bureaucratic and oppressive as, say, international travel, is absolutely a trend - and a very harmful one.
- nowherebeen 5y ago
  > It’s not really a “trend” > As more commerce moves online It is very much a trend and that is very much what you are describing. The problem with identity verification is a) Business that have no business requesting them do so. Linkedin, Google, Facebook does this when they suspect you are a bot. But if you have been a long time user, they hold your account with your personal data as hostage. You cannot delete your account if you object to providing your official documents. b) There is very little legal protection if companies (not saying Stripe will) use your official documents to build an extremely detail online profile of you. Its all based on trusting what these companies say.
- tracedddd 5y ago
  Just last month I had a DJ company ask for an ID and selfie for a $200 software purchase. Maybe these things are designed for KYC’ing crypto and buying alcohol but it’s definitely a trend to apply this process broadly. All for the fear of generally preventing everyday fraud, piracy, and maybe just collecting data for some nebulous future use. Of course they rarely do the actual basics and apply any thought to not treating your real customers like criminals. I don’t doubt Stripe can make the process better and do it in a good way, but can Stripe minimize what this process is even applied to in the first place and avoid manufactured consent.
- seany 5y ago
  It's not a good trend though. I actually prioritize doing business with vendors that don't do this (I only shop at stores that don't generally card for alcohol for instance)
sascha_sl 5y ago
It also outright disincentivizes usage for some people. The biggest group is probably people without a proper ID (a very US-only issue), but I personally avoided showing or sending my ID anywhere before I was able to change my legal name to one that didn't make me want to rip my eyes out. MasterCard and their "True Name" program did a good thing there.
TacticalCoder 5y ago
I recently had, twice, to do stuff WAY more intrusive. Video/conf call, need to hold my passport, need to have my phone on hand... People on the other side would call me on my phone to verify it's my number and they'd also send me a SMS with a code to verify on that phone. After that they have: my face, copy of my passport, my voice, my phone number, my IP (unless I'm really going out of my way to obfuscate it), my email, etc. Once I did this, then the series of documents to sign using Docusign came in. That was the most serious KYC/AML I've ever seen. I don't like it much but I gotta say: I can definitely see how it raises the bar for would be scammers/impersonators.
- cantrevealname 5y ago
  You said it happened twice. I haven't yet had to face this level of intrusiveness, but I fear that it's coming for all of us. May I ask what companies these were? If you don't want to name the exact companies, could you say the general purpose (opening a bank account, buying or selling real estate, incorporating a business, etc.)? Also, which country (I'm assuming the U.S.)?
  - riknox 5y ago
    Not the OP but I had to do this when opening a bank account in Germany.
    - tracedddd 5y ago
      That’s about the only time I’d find something like this reasonable.
- huhtenberg 5y ago
  Until these people are breached and someone takes out a mortgage in your name using all these lovely personal details.

I really despise this trend of uploading your ID and a selfie for verification. I know it makes sense in some legal frameworks, but beyond that I find it invasive and risky (and rude.)

edwinwee 5y ago

It’s not really a “trend”—if you think about it, ID verification is already required when checking into hotels, buying alcohol, or when visiting a bank teller. As more commerce moves online, Stripe Identity was built to significantly reduce the number of organizations and humans that would touch your ID—in a faster, secure way that’s hosted by Stripe (https://support.stripe.com/questions/common-questions-about-stripe-identity#why-id-verification https://support.stripe.com/questions/common-questions-about-...). We are also very direct about collecting consent: https://support.stripe.com/questions/common-questions-about-stripe-identity#verification-consent https://support.stripe.com/questions/common-questions-about-....

toufka 5y ago
In very few of those use-cases does the entity 1) _retain_ any of that data, 2) posses an internet-scale database of identities. And as we've all come to know the distinction between "able to surveil" and "collect it all" crosses a threshold to make it of a different kind. If one's mindset is that in general, tech companies, unlike those other entities store it all, then there actually is a recent "trend" to migrate a normal behavior into an abnormally socially adjusted space.
- sascha_sl 5y ago
  It is already illegal to retain copies of ID cards or even some of the data in many countries. Just requesting a copy without redactions is wandering into a gray area in Germany.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
butt__hugger 5y ago
Why are you shilling the product you made out of data collection and surveillance if it isn't trendy? What other value proposition is there?
wyager 5y ago
One of the nice things about the internet is/was that it requires less bullshit and red tape than many real-life interactions. The internet becoming as bureaucratic and oppressive as, say, international travel, is absolutely a trend - and a very harmful one.
nowherebeen 5y ago
> It’s not really a “trend” > As more commerce moves online It is very much a trend and that is very much what you are describing. The problem with identity verification is a) Business that have no business requesting them do so. Linkedin, Google, Facebook does this when they suspect you are a bot. But if you have been a long time user, they hold your account with your personal data as hostage. You cannot delete your account if you object to providing your official documents. b) There is very little legal protection if companies (not saying Stripe will) use your official documents to build an extremely detail online profile of you. Its all based on trusting what these companies say.
tracedddd 5y ago
Just last month I had a DJ company ask for an ID and selfie for a $200 software purchase. Maybe these things are designed for KYC’ing crypto and buying alcohol but it’s definitely a trend to apply this process broadly. All for the fear of generally preventing everyday fraud, piracy, and maybe just collecting data for some nebulous future use. Of course they rarely do the actual basics and apply any thought to not treating your real customers like criminals. I don’t doubt Stripe can make the process better and do it in a good way, but can Stripe minimize what this process is even applied to in the first place and avoid manufactured consent.
seany 5y ago
It's not a good trend though. I actually prioritize doing business with vendors that don't do this (I only shop at stores that don't generally card for alcohol for instance)

sascha_sl 5y ago

It also outright disincentivizes usage for some people. The biggest group is probably people without a proper ID (a very US-only issue), but I personally avoided showing or sending my ID anywhere before I was able to change my legal name to one that didn't make me want to rip my eyes out. MasterCard and their "True Name" program did a good thing there.

TacticalCoder 5y ago

I recently had, twice, to do stuff WAY more intrusive. Video/conf call, need to hold my passport, need to have my phone on hand... People on the other side would call me on my phone to verify it's my number and they'd also send me a SMS with a code to verify on that phone. After that they have: my face, copy of my passport, my voice, my phone number, my IP (unless I'm really going out of my way to obfuscate it), my email, etc. Once I did this, then the series of documents to sign using Docusign came in. That was the most serious KYC/AML I've ever seen. I don't like it much but I gotta say: I can definitely see how it raises the bar for would be scammers/impersonators.

cantrevealname 5y ago
You said it happened twice. I haven't yet had to face this level of intrusiveness, but I fear that it's coming for all of us. May I ask what companies these were? If you don't want to name the exact companies, could you say the general purpose (opening a bank account, buying or selling real estate, incorporating a business, etc.)? Also, which country (I'm assuming the U.S.)?
- riknox 5y ago
  Not the OP but I had to do this when opening a bank account in Germany.
  - tracedddd 5y ago
    That’s about the only time I’d find something like this reasonable.
huhtenberg 5y ago
Until these people are breached and someone takes out a mortgage in your name using all these lovely personal details.