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I am honestly very bitter about Americans glorifying the European system while happily taking home 2/3rds of their 100k+ developer salaries and enjoying much lo

I am honestly very bitter about Americans glorifying the European system while happily taking home 2/3rds of their 100k+ developer salaries and enjoying much lower prices of everything. With regards to insurance: - in some countries (UK, Sweden) - the insurance is contingent on having a social security number, so the coverage is pretty much universal for residents, but people coming from other EU countries will still need to work or register as unemployed to get it. - in other countries, you generally need to be working or looking for work (i.e. answer phones / invitations from job centre and attend any interviews/courses they send you to) to be covered. Some countries (Poland for example, I'm Polish) allow you to buy insurance if you are neither working nor looking for work. But as of December 2020, about 1.5 mln Poles are not insured at all. [1] [1] https://tvn24.pl/polska/szczepionka-na-koronawirusa-czy-osoby-nieubezpieczone-beda-mogly-sie-zaszczepic-4785978 https://tvn24.pl/polska/szczepionka-na-koronawirusa-czy-osob...

throwaway894345 5y ago
> I am honestly very bitter about Americans glorifying the European system while happily taking home 2/3rds of their 100k+ developer salaries and enjoying much lower prices of everything. I agree, although I think the ignorance extends to Europeans as well. Europeans are often surprised to hear that American software professional salaries are ~60% higher than European salaries even after adjusting for taxes, healthcare, vacation, etc. Some will argue that the US cost of living is more expensive, but they're almost always comparing some major US metropolis with some European village or perhaps an Eastern European city. I've seen other arguments that the cost of housing in the US is comparable or more expensive, but they're typically comparing some relatively tiny European apartment with a much larger American home. Europeans seem to fixate on medical bankruptcies, as though these are commonplace for upper-middleclass Americans. This was all a surprise to me, an American, who has tried earnestly to live in Western Europe for a few years, but found that I can either live in Europe or I can travel in Europe but trying to do both would likely be economically infeasible (even if I can find gainful work as a software professional, it would specifically be difficult for my wife who isn't in a hot field). Fortunately, now that remote work is catching on, it seems likely that my wife and I will be able to do more frequent 1-3 month stints in Europe while remaining employed by our American companies. To be clear, I think the United States healthcare system should be reformed, because it doesn't serve the poorest Americans very well. However, the US healthcare system works pretty well for the upper middle class (if not the whole of the middle class) and above, contrary to perceptions I frequently hear from some Americans and Europeans.
- llbeansandrice 5y ago
  How difficult is it to work remotely in a different country? I’ve thought about doing this but it seems like it’s be a lot of hassle with my employer and navigating local laws in Europe.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    My wife and I work for smaller firms. Both of our managers seem okay with it provided we keep American-ish hours. I get the vibe that they're just not worried about it, perhaps out of ignorance or perhaps because it just seems unlikely that a single employee working remotely for a short amount of time is likely to provoke the ire of any tax authorities.
- astrange 5y ago
  > To be clear, I think the United States healthcare system should be reformed, because it doesn't serve the poorest Americans very well. This depends on the state; Medicaid expansion is doing good things for the poorest people in states where it exists. The US benefit system is tilted towards the poor, old, and people with children (distant 3rd.) It has some bad welfare cliffs for disabled people, and is the worst for middle class self-employed who aren't on their parents' insurance. Unfortunately this last group includes all online writers and popular social media users, which is why they pretend it doesn't exist for anyone.
majormajor 5y ago
> I am honestly very bitter about Americans glorifying the European system while happily taking home 2/3rds of their 100k+ developer salaries and enjoying much lower prices of everything. Why do you believe those salaries are the result of the American healthcare system? Per-capita, Americans pay more than anyone for healthcare, just in a very unbalanced way that dramatically favors those with a job over those without. Regarding comparing tax rates, those six figure job numbers don't include the substantial amount the employer is paying to the healthcare company. Bitterness about the salary gap is understandable, but it's misguided to say that the fucked-up parts of the US system are what has produced the high-revenue/high-profit companies that are driving the compensation levels.
- vidarh 5y ago
  Notably, Americans pay more per capita for Medicare and Medicaid alone than many European countries pay per capita for universal coverage. > Regarding comparing tax rates, those six figure job numbers don't include the substantial amount the employer is paying to the healthcare company. To be fair, in many European countries - and certainly for Sweden - there's substantial payroll taxes paid by employers as well. Though to end up at 65% in Sweden even with employers payroll taxes tacked on, you're already earning a multiple of an average salary.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  > Why do you believe those salaries are the result of the American healthcare system? Per-capita, Americans pay more than anyone for healthcare, just in a very unbalanced way that dramatically favors those with a job over those without. It doesn't really matter whether or not the salary difference is caused by healthcare or indeed that Americans pay more for healthcare. The only thing that matters is the post-healthcare take-home pay; if that figure is larger in American than Sweden for a given individual, then that individual is economically better off in America pretty much tautologically.
  - majormajor 5y ago
    But what matters from the perspective of the American complaining about their healthcare system, though, is if they would be even better off with their same salary but a less fucked up healthcare system. As long as that seems to be true, you'll see people complaining about it, and they'll have a valid reason for their complaints.

throwaway894345 5y ago

> I am honestly very bitter about Americans glorifying the European system while happily taking home 2/3rds of their 100k+ developer salaries and enjoying much lower prices of everything. I agree, although I think the ignorance extends to Europeans as well. Europeans are often surprised to hear that American software professional salaries are ~60% higher than European salaries even after adjusting for taxes, healthcare, vacation, etc. Some will argue that the US cost of living is more expensive, but they're almost always comparing some major US metropolis with some European village or perhaps an Eastern European city. I've seen other arguments that the cost of housing in the US is comparable or more expensive, but they're typically comparing some relatively tiny European apartment with a much larger American home. Europeans seem to fixate on medical bankruptcies, as though these are commonplace for upper-middleclass Americans. This was all a surprise to me, an American, who has tried earnestly to live in Western Europe for a few years, but found that I can either live in Europe or I can travel in Europe but trying to do both would likely be economically infeasible (even if I can find gainful work as a software professional, it would specifically be difficult for my wife who isn't in a hot field). Fortunately, now that remote work is catching on, it seems likely that my wife and I will be able to do more frequent 1-3 month stints in Europe while remaining employed by our American companies. To be clear, I think the United States healthcare system should be reformed, because it doesn't serve the poorest Americans very well. However, the US healthcare system works pretty well for the upper middle class (if not the whole of the middle class) and above, contrary to perceptions I frequently hear from some Americans and Europeans.

llbeansandrice 5y ago
How difficult is it to work remotely in a different country? I’ve thought about doing this but it seems like it’s be a lot of hassle with my employer and navigating local laws in Europe.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  My wife and I work for smaller firms. Both of our managers seem okay with it provided we keep American-ish hours. I get the vibe that they're just not worried about it, perhaps out of ignorance or perhaps because it just seems unlikely that a single employee working remotely for a short amount of time is likely to provoke the ire of any tax authorities.
astrange 5y ago
> To be clear, I think the United States healthcare system should be reformed, because it doesn't serve the poorest Americans very well. This depends on the state; Medicaid expansion is doing good things for the poorest people in states where it exists. The US benefit system is tilted towards the poor, old, and people with children (distant 3rd.) It has some bad welfare cliffs for disabled people, and is the worst for middle class self-employed who aren't on their parents' insurance. Unfortunately this last group includes all online writers and popular social media users, which is why they pretend it doesn't exist for anyone.

majormajor 5y ago

> I am honestly very bitter about Americans glorifying the European system while happily taking home 2/3rds of their 100k+ developer salaries and enjoying much lower prices of everything. Why do you believe those salaries are the result of the American healthcare system? Per-capita, Americans pay more than anyone for healthcare, just in a very unbalanced way that dramatically favors those with a job over those without. Regarding comparing tax rates, those six figure job numbers don't include the substantial amount the employer is paying to the healthcare company. Bitterness about the salary gap is understandable, but it's misguided to say that the fucked-up parts of the US system are what has produced the high-revenue/high-profit companies that are driving the compensation levels.

vidarh 5y ago
Notably, Americans pay more per capita for Medicare and Medicaid alone than many European countries pay per capita for universal coverage. > Regarding comparing tax rates, those six figure job numbers don't include the substantial amount the employer is paying to the healthcare company. To be fair, in many European countries - and certainly for Sweden - there's substantial payroll taxes paid by employers as well. Though to end up at 65% in Sweden even with employers payroll taxes tacked on, you're already earning a multiple of an average salary.
throwaway894345 5y ago
> Why do you believe those salaries are the result of the American healthcare system? Per-capita, Americans pay more than anyone for healthcare, just in a very unbalanced way that dramatically favors those with a job over those without. It doesn't really matter whether or not the salary difference is caused by healthcare or indeed that Americans pay more for healthcare. The only thing that matters is the post-healthcare take-home pay; if that figure is larger in American than Sweden for a given individual, then that individual is economically better off in America pretty much tautologically.
- majormajor 5y ago
  But what matters from the perspective of the American complaining about their healthcare system, though, is if they would be even better off with their same salary but a less fucked up healthcare system. As long as that seems to be true, you'll see people complaining about it, and they'll have a valid reason for their complaints.