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To all those downvoting. Do your due diligence first like I did ;)

by egfx 5y ago

jodrellblank 5y ago
Coil up some wire and run electricity through it, you get a magnetic field which can pull magnetic materials. That's an electromagnet, e.g. used in door locking systems, and lifting cars into car crushers. Instead of pulling on a car, fix some magnetic material to an axle and a ring of coils around it, the magnetic pulls make the axle turn, you have an electric motor. Have some freely moving magnetic material, and unroll the motor into a line of coils, and you can make a linear motor as used in a maglev train. Make the electric current pulses powerful enough, and the thing is fired away very fast, your linear motor becomes a rail gun. Make a huge pulse and make the thing small and light, and it could go fast enough to reach escape velocity from one coil. Handwavy estimates: An 8d nail weighs around 5 grams[1], it takes 28kWh to get 1kg past escape velocity[2], so about 150Wh into the nail might do it. Pump about 2 laptop batteries worth of energy into accelerating the nail between the moment it picks up off the ground, and the moment it exits the top of the coil travelling at several kilometers per sec - that's going to need a big setup with supercooling and high power capacitors because the time window is so short, not because it's using secret alien technology. It doesn't sound "suspiciously like gravity manipulation" at all? [1] at ~100 8d nails to the pound, and ~450grams to the pound, 1/100th of 450 makes 4.5grams, rounded up: https://www.treeisland.com/sites/default/files/documents/brochures-spec-sheets/Average%20nails%20per%20pound.pdf https://www.treeisland.com/sites/default/files/documents/bro... [2] https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/4330/how-much-energy-is-required-to-put-1-kg-in-leo https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/4330/how-much-ener...
- egfx 5y ago
  >It doesn't sound "suspiciously like gravity manipulation" at all? Try adding some rotary effects and then it may. You gotta think outside the globe.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    Could you, like, give some actual detail, instead of making us try to guess what you have in mind? Because we're bored of that game...
    - egfx 5y ago
      sure not a problem. Parse through this document : https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/0e/5e/e0/eb08a31c44827a/US6974110.pdf https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/0e/5e/e0/eb08a31...
      - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        Interesting. Granted in December 2005. So in the intervening 15 1/2 years, has someone shown a working device? Can you point me to documentation of that?
        egfx 5y ago
        Umm I think you just answered your own question.
      - jodrellblank 5y ago
        Ah, Biefeld-Brown effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld–Brown_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld–Brown_effect
        egfx 5y ago
        Yes. What about it? It’s interesting isn’t it?
        jodrellblank 5y ago
        You started off talking about how a supercooled electromagnet sounds like a theorised UFO operating mechanism which involves electrogravitics. When pushed, you suggested rotation was involved. When pushed again, you linked to a patent which presumably was related to your statements, but instead it describes an atmospheric electricity harvesting pyramid. It insists the device must be pyramid shaped and not boxy, and that the pyramid must be big - 150m high and with a 40,000 square metre base. The shape is important for the described effect to happen, and the size is important to have enough voltage difference between base and peak. NB. this thing is HUGE, the base is the area of a soccer pitch, and the height is more than 3x higher than the Hindenburg, the biggest flying machine ever built. [Aside, it's claimed that the pyramid will have a 30kV potential difference between base and peak; how come I don't get electrocuted when I stand up if the 200V/meter potential gradient near the surface of the Earth claim is correct? How come we don't get this power generation at all from 600m high asymmetric skyscrapers with steel superstructures?]. This pyramid will harvest atmospheric / thunderstorm electricity and be a power supply for civilization. The patent then moves on to describing a vehicle with a spehrical capacitor small enough to go in a vehicle and a rod sticking out the top which must be positively charged, with no explanation where the pyramid or the massive size requirements went, or how or why the capacitor will do anything of any interest. Is it really suggesting "put a rod in the air and electricity will flow"? Because a) yes that happens, they're called aerials and they put out small amounts of electric signals and they don't take off, and b) wouldn't that happen with lightning conductors on buildings, and they be used as power supplies?. Still, put that aside and see how the patent describes the mechanism of operation: "When all capacitor plates are charged, a pressure differential is induced and above the craft the pressure will be higher than at the bottom of the craft. This pressure differential is unstable and progresses towards an equilibrium. It will propel the craft forward in order to eliminate the pressure gradient." (Like a wing, air will move, faster moving air is lower pressure, slower moving air is higher pressure, the air pressure dfferential pushes the craft, right?). That is, the patent you linked to to explain how UFOs might be powered by a device like a supercooled electromagnet with an antigravity effect using electrogravitics and involving rotation, describes a thing which doesn't involve supercooling, or electromagnets, or electrogravitics, or antigravity, or rotation(?!). There exists a MagnetoHydroDynamic drive, it's able to push seawater using only electricity and no other moving parts, and there is a ship called Yamato 1 built to experiment with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive that's cool. There exists a small airplane built by MIT which uses high voltage wires and no moving parts to generate an ionic wind to lift itself: https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-parts-1121 https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-p... that's cool. Biefeld-Brown lifters are interesting. Connection to UFOs, antigravity, or the experiment with the nail described in this thread, still not apparent.

To all those downvoting. Do your due diligence first like I did ;)

by egfx 5y ago

To all those downvoting. Do your due diligence first like I did ;)

Coil up some wire and run electricity through it, you get a magnetic field which can pull magnetic materials. That's an electromagnet, e.g. used in door locking systems, and lifting cars into car crushers. Instead of pulling on a car, fix some magnetic material to an axle and a ring of coils around it, the magnetic pulls make the axle turn, you have an electric motor. Have some freely moving magnetic material, and unroll the motor into a line of coils, and you can make a linear motor as used in a maglev train. Make the electric current pulses powerful enough, and the thing is fired away very fast, your linear motor becomes a rail gun. Make a huge pulse and make the thing small and light, and it could go fast enough to reach escape velocity from one coil. Handwavy estimates: An 8d nail weighs around 5 grams[1], it takes 28kWh to get 1kg past escape velocity[2], so about 150Wh into the nail might do it. Pump about 2 laptop batteries worth of energy into accelerating the nail between the moment it picks up off the ground, and the moment it exits the top of the coil travelling at several kilometers per sec - that's going to need a big setup with supercooling and high power capacitors because the time window is so short, not because it's using secret alien technology. It doesn't sound "suspiciously like gravity manipulation" at all? [1] at ~100 8d nails to the pound, and ~450grams to the pound, 1/100th of 450 makes 4.5grams, rounded up: https://www.treeisland.com/sites/default/files/documents/brochures-spec-sheets/Average%20nails%20per%20pound.pdf https://www.treeisland.com/sites/default/files/documents/bro... [2] https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/4330/how-much-energy-is-required-to-put-1-kg-in-leo https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/4330/how-much-ener...

egfx 5y ago
>It doesn't sound "suspiciously like gravity manipulation" at all? Try adding some rotary effects and then it may. You gotta think outside the globe.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Could you, like, give some actual detail, instead of making us try to guess what you have in mind? Because we're bored of that game...
  - egfx 5y ago
    sure not a problem. Parse through this document : https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/0e/5e/e0/eb08a31c44827a/US6974110.pdf https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/0e/5e/e0/eb08a31...
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      Interesting. Granted in December 2005. So in the intervening 15 1/2 years, has someone shown a working device? Can you point me to documentation of that?
      - egfx 5y ago
        Umm I think you just answered your own question.
    - jodrellblank 5y ago
      Ah, Biefeld-Brown effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld–Brown_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld–Brown_effect
      - egfx 5y ago
        Yes. What about it? It’s interesting isn’t it?
        jodrellblank 5y ago
        You started off talking about how a supercooled electromagnet sounds like a theorised UFO operating mechanism which involves electrogravitics. When pushed, you suggested rotation was involved. When pushed again, you linked to a patent which presumably was related to your statements, but instead it describes an atmospheric electricity harvesting pyramid. It insists the device must be pyramid shaped and not boxy, and that the pyramid must be big - 150m high and with a 40,000 square metre base. The shape is important for the described effect to happen, and the size is important to have enough voltage difference between base and peak. NB. this thing is HUGE, the base is the area of a soccer pitch, and the height is more than 3x higher than the Hindenburg, the biggest flying machine ever built. [Aside, it's claimed that the pyramid will have a 30kV potential difference between base and peak; how come I don't get electrocuted when I stand up if the 200V/meter potential gradient near the surface of the Earth claim is correct? How come we don't get this power generation at all from 600m high asymmetric skyscrapers with steel superstructures?]. This pyramid will harvest atmospheric / thunderstorm electricity and be a power supply for civilization. The patent then moves on to describing a vehicle with a spehrical capacitor small enough to go in a vehicle and a rod sticking out the top which must be positively charged, with no explanation where the pyramid or the massive size requirements went, or how or why the capacitor will do anything of any interest. Is it really suggesting "put a rod in the air and electricity will flow"? Because a) yes that happens, they're called aerials and they put out small amounts of electric signals and they don't take off, and b) wouldn't that happen with lightning conductors on buildings, and they be used as power supplies?. Still, put that aside and see how the patent describes the mechanism of operation: "When all capacitor plates are charged, a pressure differential is induced and above the craft the pressure will be higher than at the bottom of the craft. This pressure differential is unstable and progresses towards an equilibrium. It will propel the craft forward in order to eliminate the pressure gradient." (Like a wing, air will move, faster moving air is lower pressure, slower moving air is higher pressure, the air pressure dfferential pushes the craft, right?). That is, the patent you linked to to explain how UFOs might be powered by a device like a supercooled electromagnet with an antigravity effect using electrogravitics and involving rotation, describes a thing which doesn't involve supercooling, or electromagnets, or electrogravitics, or antigravity, or rotation(?!). There exists a MagnetoHydroDynamic drive, it's able to push seawater using only electricity and no other moving parts, and there is a ship called Yamato 1 built to experiment with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive that's cool. There exists a small airplane built by MIT which uses high voltage wires and no moving parts to generate an ionic wind to lift itself: https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-parts-1121 https://news.mit.edu/2018/first-ionic-wind-plane-no-moving-p... that's cool. Biefeld-Brown lifters are interesting. Connection to UFOs, antigravity, or the experiment with the nail described in this thread, still not apparent.