6 ms·

This almost proves that webapps are a competitive substitute to AppStores - making the consumer detriment very hard to prove in the current anti-trust framework

This almost proves that webapps are a competitive substitute to AppStores - making the consumer detriment very hard to prove in the current anti-trust framework.

patrickmcnamara 5y ago
Proves it for this one use case maybe. I don't even think you can get webapp notifications on iOS.
- jtbayly 5y ago
  The fact that Apple has refused to deliver that only proves the point. If they did, many apps wouldn’t be forced to be in the App Store. It’s certainly possible, as iirc, it works on Android for years now.
  - jsmith45 5y ago
    Incredibly annoying that apple does not support this, while also trying to crack down on apps that is considered to just be a wrapped web-application. (In which case they want you to make a proper web app instead). Even using notifications is not considered enough of a reason to get an app they feel is just a wrapper approved.
  - Me1000 5y ago
    They have supported it on desktop Safari for years, so it really is just a political decision for them at this point.
    - jtbayly 5y ago
      Financial decision, more like. They are using it to force developers who don’t need the App Store to use the App Store. Thus, Apple can force them to pay their tax.
yunohn 5y ago
This is not an app, more like a rich form? It just so happens that the APIs it needs are available in mobile browsers, i.e. camera. Other apps cannot do the same. Like messaging or social networks need things like notifications. Or those for IoT related tasks, which would need Bluetooth or such.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  Google is certainly trying. On Chrome for Android you can do both of those. Whether that's a good thing is debatable though. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Notifications_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Notificatio... https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Bluetooth_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Bluetoo...
  - yunohn 5y ago
    Nobody forces you to use PWAs. I’m tired of this constant PWA bashing on HN.
    - roblabla 5y ago
      The problem with having those APIs in the browser is that it increases the attacker surface area, which makes the browser less secure for everyone, including those who do not use PWAs. The only saving grace is that you have to accept the permission box (I hope so at least...), which, for the average user, may not be much protection.
      - samtho 5y ago
        Simply existing in the world increases your attack surface; everything is a trade off between usability and security. Given the pressures browsers are under, they have incentives built into their business model to provide very good security which is a departure from most other software where security is just a nuisance at best and totally ignored at worst.
    - wyager 5y ago
darksaints 5y ago
Okay stretch armstrong
kgraves 5y ago
how are mobile notifications on the web going for iOS?
- anonymouse008 5y ago
  Said it in another thread -- SMS's are a tangibly better user experience. You get to say stop in the moment, instead of searching through opaque settings... you can set DND to certain numbers for certain times... The whole ecosystem is there and very few are playing with it.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Any iOS notification permits you to "say stop in the moment" - you just swipe on the notification and select "Manage". The options are pretty well thought-out.
    - anonymouse008 5y ago
      That's actually a whole different user flow -- you leave the notification to enter a separate system of controls with esoteric commands, over just typing what you want to happen.. "Stop" - forever until I want you back "Stop this week" - self-explanatory "Not during work hours" - also ^ "Consolidate weekly" - get a digest "I don't care" - make better suggestions So many contextual pieces to make better notifications are right there... and though a toggle button appears to be 'easier' the cognitive dissonance is less the conversational environment of SMS.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        Texting "stop this week" will stop SMSes from that number forever because of the STOP keyword. I've never seen any SMS system that would correctly interpret and adjust to things like "not during work hours" or "consolidate weekly" responses.
        anonymouse008 5y ago

This almost proves that webapps are a competitive substitute to AppStores - making the consumer detriment very hard to prove in the current anti-trust framework.

patrickmcnamara 5y ago

Proves it for this one use case maybe. I don't even think you can get webapp notifications on iOS.

jtbayly 5y ago
The fact that Apple has refused to deliver that only proves the point. If they did, many apps wouldn’t be forced to be in the App Store. It’s certainly possible, as iirc, it works on Android for years now.
- jsmith45 5y ago
  Incredibly annoying that apple does not support this, while also trying to crack down on apps that is considered to just be a wrapped web-application. (In which case they want you to make a proper web app instead). Even using notifications is not considered enough of a reason to get an app they feel is just a wrapper approved.
- Me1000 5y ago
  They have supported it on desktop Safari for years, so it really is just a political decision for them at this point.
  - jtbayly 5y ago
    Financial decision, more like. They are using it to force developers who don’t need the App Store to use the App Store. Thus, Apple can force them to pay their tax.

yunohn 5y ago

This is not an app, more like a rich form? It just so happens that the APIs it needs are available in mobile browsers, i.e. camera. Other apps cannot do the same. Like messaging or social networks need things like notifications. Or those for IoT related tasks, which would need Bluetooth or such.

wongarsu 5y ago
Google is certainly trying. On Chrome for Android you can do both of those. Whether that's a good thing is debatable though. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Notifications_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Notificatio... https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Bluetooth_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Bluetoo...
- yunohn 5y ago
  Nobody forces you to use PWAs. I’m tired of this constant PWA bashing on HN.
  - roblabla 5y ago
    The problem with having those APIs in the browser is that it increases the attacker surface area, which makes the browser less secure for everyone, including those who do not use PWAs. The only saving grace is that you have to accept the permission box (I hope so at least...), which, for the average user, may not be much protection.
    - samtho 5y ago
      Simply existing in the world increases your attack surface; everything is a trade off between usability and security. Given the pressures browsers are under, they have incentives built into their business model to provide very good security which is a departure from most other software where security is just a nuisance at best and totally ignored at worst.
  - wyager 5y ago

darksaints 5y ago

Okay stretch armstrong

kgraves 5y ago

how are mobile notifications on the web going for iOS?

anonymouse008 5y ago
Said it in another thread -- SMS's are a tangibly better user experience. You get to say stop in the moment, instead of searching through opaque settings... you can set DND to certain numbers for certain times... The whole ecosystem is there and very few are playing with it.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Any iOS notification permits you to "say stop in the moment" - you just swipe on the notification and select "Manage". The options are pretty well thought-out.
  - anonymouse008 5y ago
    That's actually a whole different user flow -- you leave the notification to enter a separate system of controls with esoteric commands, over just typing what you want to happen.. "Stop" - forever until I want you back "Stop this week" - self-explanatory "Not during work hours" - also ^ "Consolidate weekly" - get a digest "I don't care" - make better suggestions So many contextual pieces to make better notifications are right there... and though a toggle button appears to be 'easier' the cognitive dissonance is less the conversational environment of SMS.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Texting "stop this week" will stop SMSes from that number forever because of the STOP keyword. I've never seen any SMS system that would correctly interpret and adjust to things like "not during work hours" or "consolidate weekly" responses.
      - anonymouse008 5y ago