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> "For years, urban developers have been talking about “15-minute cities”—accessible downtown neighborhoods where residents can satisfy just about every food, d

> "For years, urban developers have been talking about “15-minute cities”—accessible downtown neighborhoods where residents can satisfy just about every food, drink, beauty, entertainment, and fitness need with a short walk or bike ride. Logically, as more 30-somethings relocate to the suburbs, real-estate developers will chase their needs by pouring money into a constellation of 15-minute suburban town centers. The downtown office building’s loss will be the suburban developer’s gain." Nobody I know who's moving to the suburbs is doing it to buy a loft apartment and bike everywhere. They're all entering or already in child rearing years and buying houses with yards and cars. As much as people talk about wanting to live in dense walkable neighborhoods, and as much as I wish we could build denser suburbs, the American dream of a lush lawn and big comfortable car is very much alive with millennials. And more practically, where are you going to build these walkable suburbs? All the prime space of of the inner ring is already built out, and existing "street car suburbs" have already been popular, affluent and expensive for years.

andrewclunn 5y ago
It's because American cities invariably have section 8 housing and other such blight (I say blight because of crime rates and property disrepair that come along with these subsidized housing). What's the point of waling places if I might get mugged? A city that was as exclusive as the suburbs? People would lap that up, but usually the exclusive city areas are at a price level that dwarfs suburban costs. Cities can't or won't provide safe walkable neighborhoods, so people vote with their feet and go elsewhere.
eie7ehrgdufu 5y ago
I don't understand why the other reply to this comment is dead. Whatever it might have lacked in nuance, the reality is that the tolerant approach to crime and vagrancy has created neighborhoods and downtowns that only idiots and parents with something to prove would raise a child in. If you care about the outcome of your child more than how well that child advances your social agenda then you move to the closest place that isn't garbage which is usually a suburb.
luxurytent 5y ago
Yup. Most of our cities continue to be terrible for walkability despite significant progress in the past decade. Pedestrians are still killed on side streets due to vehicles travelling well beyond 40km/h, for instance. Living in the city with children can be very desirable. You may have a small (or no backyard), but the city is your playground. Public parks, pools, trails, and so much more. But the lack of people-focused planning for generations has put us in a long tail of catchup, leaving the burbs as a preferred choice for many.
- dv_dt 5y ago
  Yup, Walkability doesn’t appear from one or two single developer projects, I think the city has to shape projects for decades. Though in my region, a couple of small classic downtown areas are hoping to a keep some permanent pedestrian streets that were turned that way during the pandemic..
- iancmceachern 5y ago
  The main issue is schools. In places like SF it's very challenging.
- matheweis 5y ago
  > Living in the city with children can be very desirable. You may have a small (or no backyard), but the city is your playground. Public parks, pools, trails, and so much more. Have you been to the cities lately? We just left Seattle; the public parks and trails were overrun with tents and needles. The school district is allowing homeless drug addicts to live on school property. The city council appears to have no interest in the quality of life of children and their families.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    This sums up inner Portland as well. It wasn't the case before 2020, though. I like to think it's a temporary state of affairs. The things that make the city an attractive place for families are still there, structurally. They're just covered with a lot of garbage at the moment.
occz 5y ago
>And more practically, where are you going to build these walkable suburbs? All the prime space of of the inner ring is already built out, and existing "street car suburbs" have already been popular, affluent and expensive for years. How about you retrofit existing suburbs? Fill in large spaces with mixed development, construct new public transportation, etc.
haskellandchill 5y ago
Downtown Melbourne Florida is seeing luxury development, food, shopping, nightlife, etc. It's a 100k town with a redeveloped historic downtown. These cities/towns are the sweet spot for WFH right now.
- Aditya_Garg 5y ago
  That’s interesting, do you have any other cities like that in mind?
  - haskellandchill 5y ago
    I would look at any city with around 100k population and a historic revitalized downtown, I found mine so I don't really need to look for others, but it should not be too hard. We have aerospace industry here which helps, so also see if there is a commercial backbone. Good luck!

andrewclunn 5y ago

It's because American cities invariably have section 8 housing and other such blight (I say blight because of crime rates and property disrepair that come along with these subsidized housing). What's the point of waling places if I might get mugged? A city that was as exclusive as the suburbs? People would lap that up, but usually the exclusive city areas are at a price level that dwarfs suburban costs. Cities can't or won't provide safe walkable neighborhoods, so people vote with their feet and go elsewhere.

eie7ehrgdufu 5y ago

I don't understand why the other reply to this comment is dead. Whatever it might have lacked in nuance, the reality is that the tolerant approach to crime and vagrancy has created neighborhoods and downtowns that only idiots and parents with something to prove would raise a child in. If you care about the outcome of your child more than how well that child advances your social agenda then you move to the closest place that isn't garbage which is usually a suburb.

luxurytent 5y ago

Yup. Most of our cities continue to be terrible for walkability despite significant progress in the past decade. Pedestrians are still killed on side streets due to vehicles travelling well beyond 40km/h, for instance. Living in the city with children can be very desirable. You may have a small (or no backyard), but the city is your playground. Public parks, pools, trails, and so much more. But the lack of people-focused planning for generations has put us in a long tail of catchup, leaving the burbs as a preferred choice for many.

dv_dt 5y ago
Yup, Walkability doesn’t appear from one or two single developer projects, I think the city has to shape projects for decades. Though in my region, a couple of small classic downtown areas are hoping to a keep some permanent pedestrian streets that were turned that way during the pandemic..
iancmceachern 5y ago
The main issue is schools. In places like SF it's very challenging.
matheweis 5y ago
> Living in the city with children can be very desirable. You may have a small (or no backyard), but the city is your playground. Public parks, pools, trails, and so much more. Have you been to the cities lately? We just left Seattle; the public parks and trails were overrun with tents and needles. The school district is allowing homeless drug addicts to live on school property. The city council appears to have no interest in the quality of life of children and their families.
- noduerme 5y ago
  This sums up inner Portland as well. It wasn't the case before 2020, though. I like to think it's a temporary state of affairs. The things that make the city an attractive place for families are still there, structurally. They're just covered with a lot of garbage at the moment.

occz 5y ago

>And more practically, where are you going to build these walkable suburbs? All the prime space of of the inner ring is already built out, and existing "street car suburbs" have already been popular, affluent and expensive for years. How about you retrofit existing suburbs? Fill in large spaces with mixed development, construct new public transportation, etc.

haskellandchill 5y ago

Downtown Melbourne Florida is seeing luxury development, food, shopping, nightlife, etc. It's a 100k town with a redeveloped historic downtown. These cities/towns are the sweet spot for WFH right now.

Aditya_Garg 5y ago
That’s interesting, do you have any other cities like that in mind?
- haskellandchill 5y ago
  I would look at any city with around 100k population and a historic revitalized downtown, I found mine so I don't really need to look for others, but it should not be too hard. We have aerospace industry here which helps, so also see if there is a commercial backbone. Good luck!