4 ms·

Listen, I am completely on board with giving employees the right to choose the remote situation - but don't be surprised when you're competing against people fr

Listen, I am completely on board with giving employees the right to choose the remote situation - but don't be surprised when you're competing against people from all over the globe, who will probably take a lower salary than you, who probably aren't entitled as you, and will bite at the opportunity. Furthermore, what are employers meant to do with their workplaces when employees are half-in, half-out with the office thing. Many folks (myself included) want to have 1-2 days at the office a week, but have the flexibility to decide that. That's not going to help my employer decide how much space is needed or whether to renew their lease.

metalliqaz 5y ago
Our company is forcing almost everyone to become remote and has closed down probably half of its office space. Now when you come in you don't have an assigned desk and they will just expect everyone to find a desk. I am also of the opinion that the writing is on the wall. I live in a HCOL area and have no doubt that remote workers in other places will eventually replace me.
slumdev 5y ago
> don't be surprised when you're competing against people from all over the globe, who will probably take a lower salary than you, who probably aren't entitled as you, and will bite at the opportunity. This competition mostly doesn't exist. The language barrier is too great, and working across time zones is something that most companies are horrible at, to say nothing of the legal/regulatory/jurisdictional challenges.
- deanclatworthy 5y ago
  I don't agree. And you're looking at this from a very anglo-centric point of view. This will open doors for french-speaking Africans to work for French companies. For Brazilians working for Portugal etc. I've worked with skilled developers from all over the world, who speak more than good enough English.
  - slumdev 5y ago
    The anglo-centric view is really a USA-centric view. UK firms, for whatever reason, don't seem to feel obligated to pay more than 50-60k GBP per year, and they still manage to fill their cube farms. And the foreigners who speak more than good enough English aren't going to be sufficiently cheaper than I am, if they're also great software engineers.
IntelMiner 5y ago
I'd be quite happy with a "remote work abroad" situation. I live in Australia and prefer being a night owl. I'd love to do Sysadmin work for a US or even EU company because it matches my natural schedule preference It's probably impractical though with regard to payroll, taxes etc but the dream is nice
- busterarm 5y ago
  It's not as hard as you think. Most companies doing this use a co-employment scheme where a local company (PEO) handles all of your payroll (in exchange for about 20% of salary). JustWorks is one of the big PEOs for US employees. I'm not sure who is most popular in your region though.
thrower123 5y ago
People keep saying this, and companies keep trying it, and it keeps not working very well. You try to cheap out with remote developers, and you get what you pay for. Sometimes it works, because the guy who sowed has already done the up and out to another company by the time it's time to reap.
- deanclatworthy 5y ago
  That's because most managers don't do due diligence and proper checks on the remote teams. I've worked with teams from Poland & Romania that have been far more productive & professional than some of my colleagues here in Finland.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    I've worked with Romanians, and have been quite impressed. I've heard good things about Polish teams. I've seen some truly God-awful, unmaintainable code, though, and have heard many outsourcing horror stories. In my experience, good engineers can command good salaries; wherever they are. I think that we will actually see engineers in India and Vietnam getting a lot more money for their work, because they are just plain good engineers, and they will be able to stand out a great deal more. This remote economy will give them some real opportunities. It's pretty hard to keep a good [wo]man down; no matter where they are.
CoastalCoder 5y ago
> Furthermore, what are employers meant to do with their workplaces when employees are half-in, half-out with the office thing. Many folks (myself included) want to have 1-2 days at the office a week, but have the flexibility to decide that. That's not going to help my employer decide how much space is needed or whether to renew their lease. The baseline (pre-pandemic) is that the employer needs to provide enough space for most/all of the workforce to be concurrently in the office. If the employer allows location flexibility, I don't see how that's a problem for the employer. The employer might feel frustrated about a missed, uncertain opportunity for downsizing the office space. But I wouldn't expect having fewer people occupy those workspaces add significant cost compared to having everyone onsite. The only real downside I can think of is in a competitive market, where whichever companies could safely shrink their office space might be able to lower the the price of their product / service.

metalliqaz 5y ago

Our company is forcing almost everyone to become remote and has closed down probably half of its office space. Now when you come in you don't have an assigned desk and they will just expect everyone to find a desk. I am also of the opinion that the writing is on the wall. I live in a HCOL area and have no doubt that remote workers in other places will eventually replace me.

slumdev 5y ago

> don't be surprised when you're competing against people from all over the globe, who will probably take a lower salary than you, who probably aren't entitled as you, and will bite at the opportunity. This competition mostly doesn't exist. The language barrier is too great, and working across time zones is something that most companies are horrible at, to say nothing of the legal/regulatory/jurisdictional challenges.

deanclatworthy 5y ago
I don't agree. And you're looking at this from a very anglo-centric point of view. This will open doors for french-speaking Africans to work for French companies. For Brazilians working for Portugal etc. I've worked with skilled developers from all over the world, who speak more than good enough English.
- slumdev 5y ago
  The anglo-centric view is really a USA-centric view. UK firms, for whatever reason, don't seem to feel obligated to pay more than 50-60k GBP per year, and they still manage to fill their cube farms. And the foreigners who speak more than good enough English aren't going to be sufficiently cheaper than I am, if they're also great software engineers.

IntelMiner 5y ago

I'd be quite happy with a "remote work abroad" situation. I live in Australia and prefer being a night owl. I'd love to do Sysadmin work for a US or even EU company because it matches my natural schedule preference It's probably impractical though with regard to payroll, taxes etc but the dream is nice

busterarm 5y ago
It's not as hard as you think. Most companies doing this use a co-employment scheme where a local company (PEO) handles all of your payroll (in exchange for about 20% of salary). JustWorks is one of the big PEOs for US employees. I'm not sure who is most popular in your region though.

thrower123 5y ago

People keep saying this, and companies keep trying it, and it keeps not working very well. You try to cheap out with remote developers, and you get what you pay for. Sometimes it works, because the guy who sowed has already done the up and out to another company by the time it's time to reap.

deanclatworthy 5y ago
That's because most managers don't do due diligence and proper checks on the remote teams. I've worked with teams from Poland & Romania that have been far more productive & professional than some of my colleagues here in Finland.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  I've worked with Romanians, and have been quite impressed. I've heard good things about Polish teams. I've seen some truly God-awful, unmaintainable code, though, and have heard many outsourcing horror stories. In my experience, good engineers can command good salaries; wherever they are. I think that we will actually see engineers in India and Vietnam getting a lot more money for their work, because they are just plain good engineers, and they will be able to stand out a great deal more. This remote economy will give them some real opportunities. It's pretty hard to keep a good [wo]man down; no matter where they are.

CoastalCoder 5y ago

> Furthermore, what are employers meant to do with their workplaces when employees are half-in, half-out with the office thing. Many folks (myself included) want to have 1-2 days at the office a week, but have the flexibility to decide that. That's not going to help my employer decide how much space is needed or whether to renew their lease. The baseline (pre-pandemic) is that the employer needs to provide enough space for most/all of the workforce to be concurrently in the office. If the employer allows location flexibility, I don't see how that's a problem for the employer. The employer might feel frustrated about a missed, uncertain opportunity for downsizing the office space. But I wouldn't expect having fewer people occupy those workspaces add significant cost compared to having everyone onsite. The only real downside I can think of is in a competitive market, where whichever companies could safely shrink their office space might be able to lower the the price of their product / service.