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>Police are a necessary part of modern civilization. Full stop. Sure, but how many? How much is the right amount. I hear the same said about our military, but

>Police are a necessary part of modern civilization. Full stop. Sure, but how many? How much is the right amount. I hear the same said about our military, but it's degrees. Should we double the amount of money we spend on police? Triple? What's enough? Do we have too much now? There are lots of indications to me that it's turned into a make-work program. >Police are a necessary part of modern civilization. Full stop. If they have no repercussions for bad actions, then implement them. The unions are too powerful, the profession is too corrupt. Police "self regulate," and insiders who try to bring light to corruption typically get punished. It's too hard for the political process. All the while, the citizenry continues to get robbed, beaten and killed. Honestly the best thing to happen to the citizenry is phone cameras. >It really isn't that complicated. Maybe you should give it some more thought.

ashneo76 5y ago
Why is this down voted?
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Look at the demographics of HN. What kind of calls do you think these demographics generate? Questioning staffing levels is not popular among the white collar crowd because "can you please come tell my neighbor to party more quietly" and "can someone write up a police report for my stolen property so I can get reimbursement from insurance" are the first type of calls to get a "haha we'll get to it when we get to it" from the dispatcher when you start reducing the department size. Harassing shitbox drivers for tail light out, telling loitering teenagers to knock it off, bothering the guy drinking while he walks his dog, all sorts of low priority things (the bulk of which can probably be described as "reducing the visibility of lower class behavior") that make up the bulk of the services HN demographics demand from the police are the first things police stop doing when they're spread thin. Killing people over bootleg cigs is the second thing they stop doing.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>Sure, but how many? Less per capita than pretty much any wealthy city or suburb has. More per capita than Detroit. We all see the kind of trouble people with no real pressing crap to do can cause with an HOA at their disposal. So I figure we should make sure the people with a badge and a gun are substantially more busy than that. Nobody wants to work in an overworked department but I don't see a way to keep police from harassing people unnecessarily other than making sure the department is small enough there's enough "real crime" to go around.
ceilingcorner 5y ago
From my point of view, the problem with the police is that the standards are not high enough. It's too easy to become an officer, it doesn't require much education, and so on. It needs to become a prestige position, something that is respectable and attracts applicants that genuinely want to do good. Right now, this doesn't happen, so you mostly get the corrupt tribalism stuff. But demonizing the police profession will guarantee that thousands of reasonable, well-meaning people will never become police officers. > Maybe you should give it some more thought. I have given it plenty of thought. I, along with pretty much anyone that actually has lived in crime-ridden areas, thinks that the idea of abolishing the police and demonizing officers is completely absurd. The worst part is that the people with the loudest voices won't face any of the repercussions. Instead, it'll be the poor, because they aren't rich and social media savvy. Actual working class people are too busy working to be tweeting all day long about politics.
- Clubber 5y ago
  >it doesn't require much education, and so on It depends on the jurisdiction. When I was in college, being a cop required a college degree. A couple of my colleagues became police. I don't know if that's still standard in major cities. >But demonizing the police profession will guarantee that thousands of reasonable, well-meaning people will never become police officers. Maybe. I think abusing citizens guarantees that the police will be demonized. We're currently in a downward spiral and it's only fixable by changing the status of the police. >thinks that the idea of abolishing the police and demonizing officers is completely absurd. That's a red herring. I never said that and in fact I explicitly said it's a matter of degree. That's not a good faith argument. You're arguing with an imaginary person in your head, not me.
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    > Maybe. I think abusing citizens guarantees that the police will be demonized. We're currently in a downward spiral and it's only fixable by changing the status of the police. And where is the bottom of the spiral? When police are completely hated by everyone, everywhere? You'll only get the absolute worst people to be police officers, as I said in my initial comment. > You're arguing with an imaginary person in your head, not me. I'm arguing against the idea that demonizing the police is an effective tactic.

ashneo76 5y ago

Why is this down voted?

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Look at the demographics of HN. What kind of calls do you think these demographics generate? Questioning staffing levels is not popular among the white collar crowd because "can you please come tell my neighbor to party more quietly" and "can someone write up a police report for my stolen property so I can get reimbursement from insurance" are the first type of calls to get a "haha we'll get to it when we get to it" from the dispatcher when you start reducing the department size. Harassing shitbox drivers for tail light out, telling loitering teenagers to knock it off, bothering the guy drinking while he walks his dog, all sorts of low priority things (the bulk of which can probably be described as "reducing the visibility of lower class behavior") that make up the bulk of the services HN demographics demand from the police are the first things police stop doing when they're spread thin. Killing people over bootleg cigs is the second thing they stop doing.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

>Sure, but how many? Less per capita than pretty much any wealthy city or suburb has. More per capita than Detroit. We all see the kind of trouble people with no real pressing crap to do can cause with an HOA at their disposal. So I figure we should make sure the people with a badge and a gun are substantially more busy than that. Nobody wants to work in an overworked department but I don't see a way to keep police from harassing people unnecessarily other than making sure the department is small enough there's enough "real crime" to go around.

ceilingcorner 5y ago

From my point of view, the problem with the police is that the standards are not high enough. It's too easy to become an officer, it doesn't require much education, and so on. It needs to become a prestige position, something that is respectable and attracts applicants that genuinely want to do good. Right now, this doesn't happen, so you mostly get the corrupt tribalism stuff. But demonizing the police profession will guarantee that thousands of reasonable, well-meaning people will never become police officers. > Maybe you should give it some more thought. I have given it plenty of thought. I, along with pretty much anyone that actually has lived in crime-ridden areas, thinks that the idea of abolishing the police and demonizing officers is completely absurd. The worst part is that the people with the loudest voices won't face any of the repercussions. Instead, it'll be the poor, because they aren't rich and social media savvy. Actual working class people are too busy working to be tweeting all day long about politics.

Clubber 5y ago
>it doesn't require much education, and so on It depends on the jurisdiction. When I was in college, being a cop required a college degree. A couple of my colleagues became police. I don't know if that's still standard in major cities. >But demonizing the police profession will guarantee that thousands of reasonable, well-meaning people will never become police officers. Maybe. I think abusing citizens guarantees that the police will be demonized. We're currently in a downward spiral and it's only fixable by changing the status of the police. >thinks that the idea of abolishing the police and demonizing officers is completely absurd. That's a red herring. I never said that and in fact I explicitly said it's a matter of degree. That's not a good faith argument. You're arguing with an imaginary person in your head, not me.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  > Maybe. I think abusing citizens guarantees that the police will be demonized. We're currently in a downward spiral and it's only fixable by changing the status of the police. And where is the bottom of the spiral? When police are completely hated by everyone, everywhere? You'll only get the absolute worst people to be police officers, as I said in my initial comment. > You're arguing with an imaginary person in your head, not me. I'm arguing against the idea that demonizing the police is an effective tactic.