5 ms·

Assume your side project is something that our society accepts as normal business, you can just say you were the CTO/CEO/Founder of "Advanced AI, LLC". If it's

by aynyc 5y ago

Assume your side project is something that our society accepts as normal business, you can just say you were the CTO/CEO/Founder of "Advanced AI, LLC". If it's open source, you can just flat out say that.

seattle_spring 5y ago
Just so we're crystal clear here: calling yourself CEO or some other inflated title would be an outright lie. Some recruiters and HMs might fall for it, but resumes like this that come to my desk end up directly in the garbage bin.
- cpach 5y ago
  I guess founder is more appropriate
  - MikeDelta 5y ago
    I often see "Founder & CEO" as well.
    - eropple 5y ago
      I use "managing member" - it's the thing on the LLC foundation documents.
- edmundsauto 5y ago
  Why would you penalize people for this? Most CEOs do the same thing - do you feel its dishonest or something? To me, it's more of a "yes, this is dumb, but it's a mistake that someone could make out of naivete or lack of confidence". It doesn't strike me as something particularly misleading (since, as you say, you see right through it). In fact, given all the outright lying that already happens in hiring, I would say this is one of the more innocuous annoyances. (And it does annoy me, but I'm annoyed at how people use the phrase, not at the one particular candidate.)
- muzani 5y ago
  I did a startup with 3 people on full time. I don't like the inflated title either, but it's necessary for raising funds or selling a company. People want to know who's taking responsibility. Some use light-hearted titles like "Dictator" or "Astro Girl" but I find those less appropriate. If my job is to convince some guy in a suit to put $150k in my bank account, deal with legal repercussions, audits, and so on, I think it's the appropriate title. Founder seems to be the other good one, but it says much less about your scope of responsibilities. Founder can be tech or sales related too. I just try to make it clear what the size of the company is.
- nostrademons 5y ago
  FWIW about half the coworkers I most respected at Google came to it by way of being CEO of their own small (oftentimes 1-3 person) company, and another 25% left to go be CEO of their own small company. What you're saying is that you don't want to hire former entrepreneurs. That's fine, but you're also inflating it to imply that your preferences are universal, which is as much of an outright lie as someone working on independent projects calling themselves CEO.
  - indigochill 5y ago
    But there's a black-and-white difference between actually founding a company and operating in the role of a CEO and slapping a "CEO" label on "I messed around with code for a while". One entails actually making a go at running a business, with all the activities that entails. The other is more of an individual contributor thing which can result in useful experience for that role, but is nothing like being a CEO. To mislabel the latter activity is just lying.
    - ForHackernews 5y ago
      > slapping a "CEO" label on "I messed around with code for a while" I've worked for several companies that were basically just a "CEO" and (sometimes other people) messing around. For whatever reason, investors seem happy to give them millions of dollars to do so. OP, have you considered making a pitch deck?
  - intev 5y ago
    He didn't say he didn't want to hire former entrepreneurs - you are saying that. He said don't be misleading about your previous position. If you say you are a CEO of a company I expect at least > 1, otherwise are you a chief of yourself? It's incredibly misleading. Also there's a huge difference between being a CEO of a one person company (don't have to deal with another human being) and a > 1 person team. As the team size increases, the title becomes increasingly more meaningful. You are free to draw the line wherever you want, but allowing it to rest on a 1 person team is pretty close to lying.
- MikeDelta 5y ago
  If you have a company and are the head of it, then calling yourself what you are is OK. Of course, the role CEO is usually associated with large companies but is a valid role in smaller ones. It shows who is ultimately responsible.
- mattmanser 5y ago
  Despite whatever YOU think it means, it's a formal legal term. Even a sole proprietor is legally an executive officer. You should dig those CVs out of your trashcan. We all try and choose an appropriate term, founder, owner, CEO, etc., but there's no rulebook and you're just making up a meaning for CEO that it doesn't actually have.
  - intev 5y ago
    Even though it's a legal term it's incredibly misleading to say the least. It's like calling yourself a top 3 finisher in a race of 3 people. Sure you are technically correct, but also very misleading. CEO implies you are the chief of a group of people. At the minimum > 1. If you are the chief of yourself and a question pops up, "Who were you managing?" or "Talk about a conflict with your team and how you resolved it" it can get embarrassing pretty quickly.
    - mattmanser 5y ago
      Again, I feel this is just you. You're ascribing a deeper meaning to the term than it actually has. Even in this thread there's someone saying "Well it's OK to call yourself CEO as long you actually tried to start the business". Think about it a bit more. How many employees before you can call yourself a CEO in your opinion? 1, 2, 10? Do they have to be employees or do freelancers count? Do free interns? Does your company have to have made a profit, or does it count if you just blew a bunch of seed cash and never made a dime? And what term do you want to use if they fall out of your personal guidelines? As you haven't actually suggested one, nor has the GP. FlibbleFlobble? Pertankywank? PersonWhoDidSomething? You setup your own company, you're a CEO.
      - intev 5y ago
        You are making this significantly more complicated than it has to be. Like I said, you and 1 or more people. If you work with other people you can call yourself a CEO. Doesn't matter if they're part time or what not. You still worked with another person. By your logic my example of the top 3 finisher in a race of 3 clearly illustrates why your view is very misleading.
- ayewo 5y ago
  The fix is simple: - for a side project that didn’t really take off, they can call their self its “founder”; - for open an source project, they can call their self its “creator” or “author”.
- aeoleonn 5y ago
  "I throw resumes in the garbage bin because I dislike their terminology" sounds a lot like "I enjoy self-agrandizement"
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
You should only do this if you are applying for the job of CTO/CEO/Founder. If you are applying for a programmer job then that is the part of your activities you should emphasise.

by aynyc 5y ago

seattle_spring 5y ago

Just so we're crystal clear here: calling yourself CEO or some other inflated title would be an outright lie. Some recruiters and HMs might fall for it, but resumes like this that come to my desk end up directly in the garbage bin.

cpach 5y ago
I guess founder is more appropriate
- MikeDelta 5y ago
  I often see "Founder & CEO" as well.
  - eropple 5y ago
    I use "managing member" - it's the thing on the LLC foundation documents.
edmundsauto 5y ago
Why would you penalize people for this? Most CEOs do the same thing - do you feel its dishonest or something? To me, it's more of a "yes, this is dumb, but it's a mistake that someone could make out of naivete or lack of confidence". It doesn't strike me as something particularly misleading (since, as you say, you see right through it). In fact, given all the outright lying that already happens in hiring, I would say this is one of the more innocuous annoyances. (And it does annoy me, but I'm annoyed at how people use the phrase, not at the one particular candidate.)
muzani 5y ago
I did a startup with 3 people on full time. I don't like the inflated title either, but it's necessary for raising funds or selling a company. People want to know who's taking responsibility. Some use light-hearted titles like "Dictator" or "Astro Girl" but I find those less appropriate. If my job is to convince some guy in a suit to put $150k in my bank account, deal with legal repercussions, audits, and so on, I think it's the appropriate title. Founder seems to be the other good one, but it says much less about your scope of responsibilities. Founder can be tech or sales related too. I just try to make it clear what the size of the company is.
nostrademons 5y ago
FWIW about half the coworkers I most respected at Google came to it by way of being CEO of their own small (oftentimes 1-3 person) company, and another 25% left to go be CEO of their own small company. What you're saying is that you don't want to hire former entrepreneurs. That's fine, but you're also inflating it to imply that your preferences are universal, which is as much of an outright lie as someone working on independent projects calling themselves CEO.
- indigochill 5y ago
  But there's a black-and-white difference between actually founding a company and operating in the role of a CEO and slapping a "CEO" label on "I messed around with code for a while". One entails actually making a go at running a business, with all the activities that entails. The other is more of an individual contributor thing which can result in useful experience for that role, but is nothing like being a CEO. To mislabel the latter activity is just lying.
  - ForHackernews 5y ago
    > slapping a "CEO" label on "I messed around with code for a while" I've worked for several companies that were basically just a "CEO" and (sometimes other people) messing around. For whatever reason, investors seem happy to give them millions of dollars to do so. OP, have you considered making a pitch deck?
- intev 5y ago
  He didn't say he didn't want to hire former entrepreneurs - you are saying that. He said don't be misleading about your previous position. If you say you are a CEO of a company I expect at least > 1, otherwise are you a chief of yourself? It's incredibly misleading. Also there's a huge difference between being a CEO of a one person company (don't have to deal with another human being) and a > 1 person team. As the team size increases, the title becomes increasingly more meaningful. You are free to draw the line wherever you want, but allowing it to rest on a 1 person team is pretty close to lying.
MikeDelta 5y ago
If you have a company and are the head of it, then calling yourself what you are is OK. Of course, the role CEO is usually associated with large companies but is a valid role in smaller ones. It shows who is ultimately responsible.
mattmanser 5y ago
Despite whatever YOU think it means, it's a formal legal term. Even a sole proprietor is legally an executive officer. You should dig those CVs out of your trashcan. We all try and choose an appropriate term, founder, owner, CEO, etc., but there's no rulebook and you're just making up a meaning for CEO that it doesn't actually have.
- intev 5y ago
  Even though it's a legal term it's incredibly misleading to say the least. It's like calling yourself a top 3 finisher in a race of 3 people. Sure you are technically correct, but also very misleading. CEO implies you are the chief of a group of people. At the minimum > 1. If you are the chief of yourself and a question pops up, "Who were you managing?" or "Talk about a conflict with your team and how you resolved it" it can get embarrassing pretty quickly.
  - mattmanser 5y ago
    Again, I feel this is just you. You're ascribing a deeper meaning to the term than it actually has. Even in this thread there's someone saying "Well it's OK to call yourself CEO as long you actually tried to start the business". Think about it a bit more. How many employees before you can call yourself a CEO in your opinion? 1, 2, 10? Do they have to be employees or do freelancers count? Do free interns? Does your company have to have made a profit, or does it count if you just blew a bunch of seed cash and never made a dime? And what term do you want to use if they fall out of your personal guidelines? As you haven't actually suggested one, nor has the GP. FlibbleFlobble? Pertankywank? PersonWhoDidSomething? You setup your own company, you're a CEO.
    - intev 5y ago
      You are making this significantly more complicated than it has to be. Like I said, you and 1 or more people. If you work with other people you can call yourself a CEO. Doesn't matter if they're part time or what not. You still worked with another person. By your logic my example of the top 3 finisher in a race of 3 clearly illustrates why your view is very misleading.
ayewo 5y ago
The fix is simple: - for a side project that didn’t really take off, they can call their self its “founder”; - for open an source project, they can call their self its “creator” or “author”.
aeoleonn 5y ago
"I throw resumes in the garbage bin because I dislike their terminology" sounds a lot like "I enjoy self-agrandizement"

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

You should only do this if you are applying for the job of CTO/CEO/Founder. If you are applying for a programmer job then that is the part of your activities you should emphasise.