4 ms·

Do we really have a precise scale for those things?

by ta988 5y ago

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
People tend to flip flop between the classical "wealthy people but not born into centuries old familial wealth on the top end and successful doctors, lawyers and financial professionals on the bottom end" definition and the "blue collar workers plus or minus a little" definition based on whichever is more convenient for the point they are trying to make that minute. Basically the GP is using the former definition and the person you're replying to is using the latter definition. Crap on the Marxists all you want but they do at least have a fairly unambiguous taxonomy for these distinctions.
- pc86 5y ago
  Most HN readers would be more than a little flummoxed at what "middle class" actually is in the US. The median household income is somewhere between $50-60k depending on where you look. The median individual income is a solid $15-20k less than that. And yet people will still nearly break their own spine trying to convolute a $200k cash comp tech worker as "middle class" because they happen to pay $4k/mo for a shared apartment in San Francisco.
  - jdmichal 5y ago
    Well that depends on whether you're defining middle class as an income or a lifestyle. If the latter, I would certainly not consider any shared living arrangements as "middle class" in the US. Even if your income band puts you in the top 1%. Now, it's quite possible that they're choosing a lesser lifestyle now in order to save and transition to another lifestyle elsewhere. That's what my brother did -- two years in SV saving as much as possible, then moved back to Seattle and bought a house. This is why any of these definitions get really murky, fast.
  - Mauricebranagh 5y ago
    Its "class" we are talking about here and it does exist in the US compare Bill Gates vs Steve Jobs and Woz.
    - pc86 5y ago
      Are those three not in the same "class"?
      - ghaff 5y ago
        While Gates was richer than Jobs, once you're in the $100B vs. $10B, you're mostly in the keeping score category. Woz is apparently worth about $100M which is still in the you can buy pretty much anything you want category. So I would say yes. On the other hand, someone who is worth, say, $10M or $20M is obviously still quite wealthy. But not necessarily in the doesn't need to think twice about hopping on a private plane or owning a private island category.
      - Mauricebranagh 5y ago
        Not initially anyway its not all about money
        pc86 5y ago
        So what is it about? You're acting like we should all know what you mean. Typically when someone talks about class they referring to income, wealth, and sometimes debt.
  - ska 5y ago
    > at what "middle class" actually is in the US. I think it is deeper than that, the country just has a confused relationship with the entire concept of class by both rejecting and embracing it.
- Semaphor 5y ago
  > Basically the GP is using the former definition I actually oriented myself more on the numbers for Germany. Which means middle class is a single household with about 2000€ net income per month. That includes a lot of trade workers. It is perfectly possible to finance a gap year without or just minor parental support.

Do we really have a precise scale for those things?

by ta988 5y ago

Do we really have a precise scale for those things?

People tend to flip flop between the classical "wealthy people but not born into centuries old familial wealth on the top end and successful doctors, lawyers and financial professionals on the bottom end" definition and the "blue collar workers plus or minus a little" definition based on whichever is more convenient for the point they are trying to make that minute. Basically the GP is using the former definition and the person you're replying to is using the latter definition. Crap on the Marxists all you want but they do at least have a fairly unambiguous taxonomy for these distinctions.

pc86 5y ago
Most HN readers would be more than a little flummoxed at what "middle class" actually is in the US. The median household income is somewhere between $50-60k depending on where you look. The median individual income is a solid $15-20k less than that. And yet people will still nearly break their own spine trying to convolute a $200k cash comp tech worker as "middle class" because they happen to pay $4k/mo for a shared apartment in San Francisco.
- jdmichal 5y ago
  Well that depends on whether you're defining middle class as an income or a lifestyle. If the latter, I would certainly not consider any shared living arrangements as "middle class" in the US. Even if your income band puts you in the top 1%. Now, it's quite possible that they're choosing a lesser lifestyle now in order to save and transition to another lifestyle elsewhere. That's what my brother did -- two years in SV saving as much as possible, then moved back to Seattle and bought a house. This is why any of these definitions get really murky, fast.
- Mauricebranagh 5y ago
  Its "class" we are talking about here and it does exist in the US compare Bill Gates vs Steve Jobs and Woz.
  - pc86 5y ago
    Are those three not in the same "class"?
    - ghaff 5y ago
      While Gates was richer than Jobs, once you're in the $100B vs. $10B, you're mostly in the keeping score category. Woz is apparently worth about $100M which is still in the you can buy pretty much anything you want category. So I would say yes. On the other hand, someone who is worth, say, $10M or $20M is obviously still quite wealthy. But not necessarily in the doesn't need to think twice about hopping on a private plane or owning a private island category.
    - Mauricebranagh 5y ago
      Not initially anyway its not all about money
      - pc86 5y ago
        So what is it about? You're acting like we should all know what you mean. Typically when someone talks about class they referring to income, wealth, and sometimes debt.
- ska 5y ago
  > at what "middle class" actually is in the US. I think it is deeper than that, the country just has a confused relationship with the entire concept of class by both rejecting and embracing it.
Semaphor 5y ago
> Basically the GP is using the former definition I actually oriented myself more on the numbers for Germany. Which means middle class is a single household with about 2000€ net income per month. That includes a lot of trade workers. It is perfectly possible to finance a gap year without or just minor parental support.