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It reminds me of that documentary "The Red Pill" in which an ex-feminist turned into a Men Right's activist after looking at the data. It's good sign that some

It reminds me of that documentary "The Red Pill" in which an ex-feminist turned into a Men Right's activist after looking at the data. It's good sign that someone on the school side recognise the damage happening. Still, she holds ridiculous beliefs that make me think the problem will never be solved by schools who have staff that is uniquely biased in one direction and can't even realise their bias. How can you even think that "Believe the woman" is a good starting point? Imagine if the gender were reversed and it was "Believe the man", how outraged would people be? In our justice system, people are innocent until proven guilty. Sure, this makes it harder to catch perpetrators but it limits innocent people from being trapped and blackmailed. It's funny how she criticises people who feel like feminists hate all men and then proceed to do the same thing by saying that MRA groups contribute to a culture of misogyny. There are surely fringe hateful people in both groups: you can easily find misandrist feminists and misogynist men right's activists.

elzbardico 5y ago
Yes, the problem is that on the far past, "believe the man" was the unwritten rule, and instead of just abolishing it, people decided that to correct that we should move to a explicit "believe the woman". It is just another instance of our tendency as a society of over-correcting on sensitive and politically charged issues. Maybe this is a cultural artifact of our heritage of abrahamic religions. Probably this is not the case in a Confucionist heritage like China.
- anthony_d 5y ago
  > Yes, the problem is that on the far past, "believe the man" was the unwritten rule That seems disingenuous at best. The US system of justice is based on assuming innocence until guilt is proven. That favors anyone who has been accused of anything. Flipping the assumption in only the case where a woman accuses a man undermines the entire system.
  - elzbardico 5y ago
    I have the impression you didn't read my comment till the end.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > The US system of justice is based on assuming innocence until guilt is proven. The US system of criminal justice is based on a strong presumption of innocence in court (and the civil system has a much weaker presumption), but those presumption are not intended to apply thr same way to the people who investigate crimes or to institutions who perform non-criminal, including investigatory, functions. If you apply a strong presumption of innocence to the investigative function, you never investigate and never find evidence.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Yes, the problem is that on the far past, "believe the man" was the unwritten rule, and instead of just abolishing it, people decided that to correct that we should move to a explicit "believe the woman". To the extent that that relates to a real problem the problem is that when things become slogans detached from context, they tend to lose critical parts of their meaning. “Believe women” does not mean “uncritically accept as absolutely true what women say without further investigation of facts”, but to treat women’s accusations as serious and not make sexist assumptions about the probability that an accusation is false because of its nature at the outset. (In part, the is a reactive effect wherein criticism directed at a deliberate strawman interpretation has, through the forces of oppositional tribal identities, actually generated support for what was initially a strawman in the tribe opposite to the one deploying the strawman.)
- t0mbstone 5y ago
  Pendulums don't just swing to the center and stay there. It can take a bit of back and forth before the middle ground is reached.
drcongo 5y ago
It's not "believe the woman", it's "believe the victim". I'm unsurprised that you registered a throwaway to hang all your dirty washing out for the world to see.
- Majestic121 5y ago
  Did you read the article ? "Believe the woman" is mentioned 3 times, including this sentence, quotes included : > Supporting those processes was the mantra, “Believe the woman.”

elzbardico 5y ago

Yes, the problem is that on the far past, "believe the man" was the unwritten rule, and instead of just abolishing it, people decided that to correct that we should move to a explicit "believe the woman". It is just another instance of our tendency as a society of over-correcting on sensitive and politically charged issues. Maybe this is a cultural artifact of our heritage of abrahamic religions. Probably this is not the case in a Confucionist heritage like China.

anthony_d 5y ago
> Yes, the problem is that on the far past, "believe the man" was the unwritten rule That seems disingenuous at best. The US system of justice is based on assuming innocence until guilt is proven. That favors anyone who has been accused of anything. Flipping the assumption in only the case where a woman accuses a man undermines the entire system.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  I have the impression you didn't read my comment till the end.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > The US system of justice is based on assuming innocence until guilt is proven. The US system of criminal justice is based on a strong presumption of innocence in court (and the civil system has a much weaker presumption), but those presumption are not intended to apply thr same way to the people who investigate crimes or to institutions who perform non-criminal, including investigatory, functions. If you apply a strong presumption of innocence to the investigative function, you never investigate and never find evidence.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Yes, the problem is that on the far past, "believe the man" was the unwritten rule, and instead of just abolishing it, people decided that to correct that we should move to a explicit "believe the woman". To the extent that that relates to a real problem the problem is that when things become slogans detached from context, they tend to lose critical parts of their meaning. “Believe women” does not mean “uncritically accept as absolutely true what women say without further investigation of facts”, but to treat women’s accusations as serious and not make sexist assumptions about the probability that an accusation is false because of its nature at the outset. (In part, the is a reactive effect wherein criticism directed at a deliberate strawman interpretation has, through the forces of oppositional tribal identities, actually generated support for what was initially a strawman in the tribe opposite to the one deploying the strawman.)
t0mbstone 5y ago
Pendulums don't just swing to the center and stay there. It can take a bit of back and forth before the middle ground is reached.

drcongo 5y ago

It's not "believe the woman", it's "believe the victim". I'm unsurprised that you registered a throwaway to hang all your dirty washing out for the world to see.

Majestic121 5y ago
Did you read the article ? "Believe the woman" is mentioned 3 times, including this sentence, quotes included : > Supporting those processes was the mantra, “Believe the woman.”