4 ms·

First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because

by pwg 15y ago

First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

hyperbovine 15y ago
Ahh, I was counting the minutes until somebody chimed in with this quote. Because the Holocaust is /so much/ like downloading Kung Fu Panda 2 off PirateBay. Bravo.
- Ihavenoname 15y ago
  That comment would have made you sound pretty cool 10 years ago before warrentles searches desires became commonplace and people are mercilessly harassed and even tortured because of race or name. why people are cool with torture and the suspension of the constitution is bend me.
  - Vivtek 15y ago
    I've always thought people cheer on torture because they think they're safe if they're on the side of strength.
tomjen3 15y ago
And had he spoken out, he would have died. That is the real problem.
- dspillett 15y ago
  Not if enough people stood with him (even against such an oppressive and confident force). The problem there being the in his case "enough people" would have been a great many people and contrary to what we tell ourselves us humans don't tend to work so well in large groups especially when you are relying on the rest of the group to stand firm. That is the point of the quote: many people didn't take action because of the risk to themselves if not enough other people took action too. If everyone speaks out you have some safety in numbers assurance, even if a small proportion of people meet with reprisals. If only a few speak out with you, you are guaranteed to be picked off in short order. That is not a risk we would naturally consider, and as the quote suggests this locally greedy algorithm for deciding when to act and when to keep shtum falls easily into the hands of a growing oppressive force.
  - tomjen3 15y ago
    The problem is that you have to organize a large enough force at the same time. Even if you show up a day later, it is too late.
    - dspillett 15y ago
      Sometimes things happen at the required scale with more spontaneity than planning (as with the first uprisings that started the collection of public shows of discontent in various countries recently) though it is rare. Once there is enough momentum many people join, but the natural reaction is to preserve yourself by not joining in until there is that momentum, which may never happen unless the circumstances are just right at exactly the right time because everyone else is waiting for other people to get started and create said momentum.

by pwg 15y ago

hyperbovine 15y ago

Ahh, I was counting the minutes until somebody chimed in with this quote. Because the Holocaust is /so much/ like downloading Kung Fu Panda 2 off PirateBay. Bravo.

Ihavenoname 15y ago
That comment would have made you sound pretty cool 10 years ago before warrentles searches desires became commonplace and people are mercilessly harassed and even tortured because of race or name. why people are cool with torture and the suspension of the constitution is bend me.
- Vivtek 15y ago
  I've always thought people cheer on torture because they think they're safe if they're on the side of strength.

tomjen3 15y ago

And had he spoken out, he would have died. That is the real problem.

dspillett 15y ago
Not if enough people stood with him (even against such an oppressive and confident force). The problem there being the in his case "enough people" would have been a great many people and contrary to what we tell ourselves us humans don't tend to work so well in large groups especially when you are relying on the rest of the group to stand firm. That is the point of the quote: many people didn't take action because of the risk to themselves if not enough other people took action too. If everyone speaks out you have some safety in numbers assurance, even if a small proportion of people meet with reprisals. If only a few speak out with you, you are guaranteed to be picked off in short order. That is not a risk we would naturally consider, and as the quote suggests this locally greedy algorithm for deciding when to act and when to keep shtum falls easily into the hands of a growing oppressive force.
- tomjen3 15y ago
  The problem is that you have to organize a large enough force at the same time. Even if you show up a day later, it is too late.
  - dspillett 15y ago
    Sometimes things happen at the required scale with more spontaneity than planning (as with the first uprisings that started the collection of public shows of discontent in various countries recently) though it is rare. Once there is enough momentum many people join, but the natural reaction is to preserve yourself by not joining in until there is that momentum, which may never happen unless the circumstances are just right at exactly the right time because everyone else is waiting for other people to get started and create said momentum.