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I will always fundamentally distrust blockchain protocols where a “private token sale” or something similar is possible. If we are truly trying to create a new

by rank0 5y ago

I will always fundamentally distrust blockchain protocols where a “private token sale” or something similar is possible. If we are truly trying to create a new decentralized financial system, why are we letting corporate entities build and control the protocols? Even if it does work, well just end up coming full circle and in 100 years there will be a new movement to dethrone the ethereum/solana/algorand elites all over again. What does it matter if solana labs validators run the financial system rather than JP Morgan? Neither are democratic or exist to serve the public. At least with Bitcoin or other PoW systems anyone can participate in the network...

kgraves 5y ago
This. And to think that I was the crazy one for calling “private token sales” for what it is, a scam. Only to be suppressed further down in the thread. We shouldn't be celebrating this. EDIT: dang is here, picking on me and flagging this comment as I gave a substantiated Princeton study of my claims in my comment [0], I'm making my point and he is picking on me for some reason. I linked to studies and articles about my points for readers to look into further. How is that 'unsubstantive'? There are more unsubstantive comments in this thread that have no evidence and are outright baseless, but obviously dang won't go after those. > I absolutely don't mean to pick on you personally... you are, please do not patronise me on this. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497742
- dang 5y ago
  Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments? You're not being "suppressed", just asked not to lower the quality of the thread with generic, shallow, predictable dismissals. We don't care what your position is, we care about the quality of these threads, and especially about not having the same wretched, copy/pasted flamewar over and over. It's entirely possible to make substantial arguments in favor of the same position, as rank0 just demonstrated—and that's totally fine.
- dang 5y ago
  It's not my intention to pick on you and I'm sorry it feels that way. I'm not quite sure what to do about that. It's definitely not personal—moderation is extremely repetitive and you're far from the only person that I've replied like that to. From my perspective the principles are pretty much the same everywhere and it's just the job. I certainly understand that it feels different on the other side because the interaction is so asymmetrical. Since your edit is replying to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497174 and even quoting from it, I'm not sure why you wouldn't have posted that stuff there. It's obviously off topic here.
rorykoehler 5y ago
What is the end game for these investments? Do they want to own the economy? Is this where we’re headed?
- TimJRobinson 5y ago
  Replace wall street with open source, fair, decentralized financial systems that everyone in the world can partake in.
  - rorykoehler 5y ago
    What's in it for the likes of A16Z?
    - TimJRobinson 5y ago
      SOL Tokens are the fuel of this system. A16Z is buying a lot of this fuel which could be very valuable if it takes over the world.
      - rorykoehler 5y ago
        This is just rent seeking. I don't see how this is beneficial to the stated goals? All it does is tax the small guy who can't join the private sale. Crypto marketing and practice are at odds. It just doesn't sit right with me. No one seems to be able to explain why any of this is necessary from a practical/logistical perspective.
        gnrlst 5y ago
        Completely agree. ICOs and private sales to big players are exactly what Crypto is supposed to be trying to disrupt: something by the people, for the people, that no large entity can control. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
        TimJRobinson 5y ago
        I agree with your comments on the private sale. DeFi is necessary because currently only 0.1% of the world has access to the financial tools on Wall Street, and the current financial game is heavily rigged by those with money and power. By open sourcing the process and allowing everyone to partake everyone in the world gets access to massive financial markets and can build interesting products using loans, derivatives, options, futures etc. They also get to play the part of the bank and earn money providing liquidity to trading pools, loans, short-sellers etc.
donkeyd 5y ago
I think the only reason right now, is that the people asking these questions are not the same people investing in and being vocal proponents of these protocols. If I look at my own circle, the people who are vocal proponents of crypto are always invested (which makes a lot of sense) but are often also not generally very informed. They are often people who have spent next to no time investing in traditional markets, nor have they actually read up on any of the technologies beyond promotional white papers. These people think (and maybe they're right, some clearly were) that this is their chance to be part of a great recalibration, a wealth transfer from the rich to the average. They often aren't even aware that the bulk of the rise in market Cap is beneficial to people like the Winklevoss twins in case of BTC or private investors in case of Solana. If this news even reaches them it'll be in the form of: "the token sale was very successful, which proofs that this technology is going to win the market, so you should invest too!. Who knows what will happen though, maybe we're just blind to a technology that'll eat the world.
- rank0 5y ago
  I agree with your point. Maybe I should get off my ass and contribute to an open protocol that I believe in... Unfortunately I’ve got my day job to perform and my side projects I really enjoy have nothing to do with crypto.
cslarson 5y ago
Buying hardware to mine vs buying tokens to stake... really there is no difference in accessibility here.
- sschueller 5y ago
  Yes it is, if only a few are even permitted to buy the hardware it is quite different than when anyone can buy the hardware. Sure you need money but that same goes for a public sale where anyone with money can buy in.
Synaesthesia 5y ago
Thank you. Yes the entire philosophy of economics, the assumptions need to be rethought if we want a radical change (what got me excited about crypto) rather than just a status quo.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  You might think so, and I might agree, but the people in charge most definitely do not want to step away from troughs.
pgsimp 5y ago
What approach would you propose to pay for the development?

by rank0 5y ago

kgraves 5y ago

This. And to think that I was the crazy one for calling “private token sales” for what it is, a scam. Only to be suppressed further down in the thread. We shouldn't be celebrating this. EDIT: dang is here, picking on me and flagging this comment as I gave a substantiated Princeton study of my claims in my comment [0], I'm making my point and he is picking on me for some reason. I linked to studies and articles about my points for readers to look into further. How is that 'unsubstantive'? There are more unsubstantive comments in this thread that have no evidence and are outright baseless, but obviously dang won't go after those. > I absolutely don't mean to pick on you personally... you are, please do not patronise me on this. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497742

dang 5y ago
Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments? You're not being "suppressed", just asked not to lower the quality of the thread with generic, shallow, predictable dismissals. We don't care what your position is, we care about the quality of these threads, and especially about not having the same wretched, copy/pasted flamewar over and over. It's entirely possible to make substantial arguments in favor of the same position, as rank0 just demonstrated—and that's totally fine.
dang 5y ago
It's not my intention to pick on you and I'm sorry it feels that way. I'm not quite sure what to do about that. It's definitely not personal—moderation is extremely repetitive and you're far from the only person that I've replied like that to. From my perspective the principles are pretty much the same everywhere and it's just the job. I certainly understand that it feels different on the other side because the interaction is so asymmetrical. Since your edit is replying to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27497174 and even quoting from it, I'm not sure why you wouldn't have posted that stuff there. It's obviously off topic here.

rorykoehler 5y ago

What is the end game for these investments? Do they want to own the economy? Is this where we’re headed?

TimJRobinson 5y ago
Replace wall street with open source, fair, decentralized financial systems that everyone in the world can partake in.
- rorykoehler 5y ago
  What's in it for the likes of A16Z?
  - TimJRobinson 5y ago
    SOL Tokens are the fuel of this system. A16Z is buying a lot of this fuel which could be very valuable if it takes over the world.
    - rorykoehler 5y ago
      This is just rent seeking. I don't see how this is beneficial to the stated goals? All it does is tax the small guy who can't join the private sale. Crypto marketing and practice are at odds. It just doesn't sit right with me. No one seems to be able to explain why any of this is necessary from a practical/logistical perspective.
      - gnrlst 5y ago
        Completely agree. ICOs and private sales to big players are exactly what Crypto is supposed to be trying to disrupt: something by the people, for the people, that no large entity can control. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
      - TimJRobinson 5y ago
        I agree with your comments on the private sale. DeFi is necessary because currently only 0.1% of the world has access to the financial tools on Wall Street, and the current financial game is heavily rigged by those with money and power. By open sourcing the process and allowing everyone to partake everyone in the world gets access to massive financial markets and can build interesting products using loans, derivatives, options, futures etc. They also get to play the part of the bank and earn money providing liquidity to trading pools, loans, short-sellers etc.

donkeyd 5y ago

I think the only reason right now, is that the people asking these questions are not the same people investing in and being vocal proponents of these protocols. If I look at my own circle, the people who are vocal proponents of crypto are always invested (which makes a lot of sense) but are often also not generally very informed. They are often people who have spent next to no time investing in traditional markets, nor have they actually read up on any of the technologies beyond promotional white papers. These people think (and maybe they're right, some clearly were) that this is their chance to be part of a great recalibration, a wealth transfer from the rich to the average. They often aren't even aware that the bulk of the rise in market Cap is beneficial to people like the Winklevoss twins in case of BTC or private investors in case of Solana. If this news even reaches them it'll be in the form of: "the token sale was very successful, which proofs that this technology is going to win the market, so you should invest too!. Who knows what will happen though, maybe we're just blind to a technology that'll eat the world.

rank0 5y ago
I agree with your point. Maybe I should get off my ass and contribute to an open protocol that I believe in... Unfortunately I’ve got my day job to perform and my side projects I really enjoy have nothing to do with crypto.

cslarson 5y ago

Buying hardware to mine vs buying tokens to stake... really there is no difference in accessibility here.

sschueller 5y ago
Yes it is, if only a few are even permitted to buy the hardware it is quite different than when anyone can buy the hardware. Sure you need money but that same goes for a public sale where anyone with money can buy in.

Synaesthesia 5y ago

Thank you. Yes the entire philosophy of economics, the assumptions need to be rethought if we want a radical change (what got me excited about crypto) rather than just a status quo.

Grustaf 5y ago
You might think so, and I might agree, but the people in charge most definitely do not want to step away from troughs.

pgsimp 5y ago

What approach would you propose to pay for the development?