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Everyone seems to say it's been going on forever. Why such a big issue now all of a sudden? Is this something that has only come to light due to ultra-high-def

Everyone seems to say it's been going on forever. Why such a big issue now all of a sudden? Is this something that has only come to light due to ultra-high-def cameras and super-slow-mo that can actually measure spin rate and other minute details that was impossible to observe previously?

joshmn 5y ago
Pitchers have an incentive for a better grip on the ball. It's in a batter's best interest as well — getting hit by a 95MPH pitch is going to hurt. Adding a substance to the ball to increase spin rate via the aerodynamics — in return, increase horizontal and/or vertical movement — has now become almost a standard practice. That's what this issue is largely about. Obviously, a team can't challenge another pitcher saying "check his /jersey/cap/forearm/inside of belt/!" because their pitcher is probably doing it too.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > Obviously, a team can't challenge another pitcher saying "check his /jersey/cap/forearm/inside of belt/!" because their pitcher is probably doing it too. It is trivially easy to agree within the team on a game you're going to play clean, and challenge the other side during that game.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    True, but that will likely cost your best hitter a fastball to the ribs.
lbotos 5y ago
I read the whole article, and they say it's because pitchers are striking out batters more often now because that increase in spin puts balls just out of the hittable range. But beyond that, Baseball has been struggling in the last 5 or so years with a "boring" factor, and they are trying to change the game to address it. To be frank, I think the biggest think hurting baseball is the cable blackouts. My father is a baseball maniac, and blackouts make it harder for him to watch the games he'd like to.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  I love baseball and don’t find it boring. Although my son is in peak little league mode and his excitement about all things baseball is infectious. Agree 100% about the blackouts. I’m not paying $100/mo for cable, and it’s absurd that my kid can’t watch a baseball game without having dad around to vpn out of market.
ralph84 5y ago
Pretty much. The Statcast system that made spin rate data widely available was introduced in 2015. It took a couple of years after that for the realizations that higher spin rate = lower batting average and that sticky stuff is the easiest way to increase spin rate to percolate throughout the league.
llbeansandrice 5y ago
I'm a little biased as I'm a Cleveland fan and a fan of Trevor Bauer. But Bauer got pissed at MLB for not letting him use super glue to close a cut he got before is start in the 2016 World Series but had no enforcement of this cheating. After that season he basically said "I'm going to use foreign substances to increase my spin rate and win a Cy Young." Then he did. Now MLB has been called out so they have to do something. The whole league is pretty mismanaged from a rules and cheating perspective though.
- heymijo 5y ago
  That's part of it (also a Cleveland fan here). Bauer suspected Houston of using substances to get a higher spin rate. He had worked out at Driveline in Seattle and knew what was possible and what wasn't without illegal substances. In his typical fashion, he accused Houston in the media and on Twitter. MLB didn't do anything about it. So naturally Bauer joined the club.
heymijo 5y ago
> Why such a big issue now all of a sudden? Statcast [0] + Tradition In the past ten years major technological developments came online. Players for the first time could measure spin rate of baseballs and see how it affected pitches. Players like Trevor Bauer started experimenting out at Driveline Baseball in Seattle. The innovations diffused and here we are. Now tradition. Major League pitchers have a long tradition of using substances to help them pitch better. A much to young heymijo watched the 1989 movie Major League and was introduced to Eddie Harris, the crafty veteran pitcher. A scene from the movie: < "What’s that shit on your chest?" "Crisco. Bardol. Vagisil. Any one of them will give you another two to three inches drop on your curveball." > Of course, if the umps are watching me close, I just put a little jalapeño inside my nose and get it running, and if I need to load the ball up a little, just wipe my nose. Pitchers have been putting stuff on the ball for ages. It has been loosely enforced if at all up until now. Some substances are even legal, like the rosin bag. So technology + tradition combined and we reached an inflection point. Oh yeah, there's a new substance that came out called Spider-tack, which is taking sticky to the next level. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statcast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statcast
thebigman433 5y ago
> Why such a big issue now all of a sudden Part of the issue is that the league wide batting average is at a historical low, and almost every game is turning into a pitching duel to see who gives up the least amount of home runs. This leads to some incredibly dull games, which isnt what the MLB wants.

joshmn 5y ago

Pitchers have an incentive for a better grip on the ball. It's in a batter's best interest as well — getting hit by a 95MPH pitch is going to hurt. Adding a substance to the ball to increase spin rate via the aerodynamics — in return, increase horizontal and/or vertical movement — has now become almost a standard practice. That's what this issue is largely about. Obviously, a team can't challenge another pitcher saying "check his /jersey/cap/forearm/inside of belt/!" because their pitcher is probably doing it too.

thaumasiotes 5y ago
> Obviously, a team can't challenge another pitcher saying "check his /jersey/cap/forearm/inside of belt/!" because their pitcher is probably doing it too. It is trivially easy to agree within the team on a game you're going to play clean, and challenge the other side during that game.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  True, but that will likely cost your best hitter a fastball to the ribs.

lbotos 5y ago

I read the whole article, and they say it's because pitchers are striking out batters more often now because that increase in spin puts balls just out of the hittable range. But beyond that, Baseball has been struggling in the last 5 or so years with a "boring" factor, and they are trying to change the game to address it. To be frank, I think the biggest think hurting baseball is the cable blackouts. My father is a baseball maniac, and blackouts make it harder for him to watch the games he'd like to.

Spooky23 5y ago
I love baseball and don’t find it boring. Although my son is in peak little league mode and his excitement about all things baseball is infectious. Agree 100% about the blackouts. I’m not paying $100/mo for cable, and it’s absurd that my kid can’t watch a baseball game without having dad around to vpn out of market.

ralph84 5y ago

Pretty much. The Statcast system that made spin rate data widely available was introduced in 2015. It took a couple of years after that for the realizations that higher spin rate = lower batting average and that sticky stuff is the easiest way to increase spin rate to percolate throughout the league.

llbeansandrice 5y ago

I'm a little biased as I'm a Cleveland fan and a fan of Trevor Bauer. But Bauer got pissed at MLB for not letting him use super glue to close a cut he got before is start in the 2016 World Series but had no enforcement of this cheating. After that season he basically said "I'm going to use foreign substances to increase my spin rate and win a Cy Young." Then he did. Now MLB has been called out so they have to do something. The whole league is pretty mismanaged from a rules and cheating perspective though.

heymijo 5y ago
That's part of it (also a Cleveland fan here). Bauer suspected Houston of using substances to get a higher spin rate. He had worked out at Driveline in Seattle and knew what was possible and what wasn't without illegal substances. In his typical fashion, he accused Houston in the media and on Twitter. MLB didn't do anything about it. So naturally Bauer joined the club.

heymijo 5y ago

> Why such a big issue now all of a sudden? Statcast [0] + Tradition In the past ten years major technological developments came online. Players for the first time could measure spin rate of baseballs and see how it affected pitches. Players like Trevor Bauer started experimenting out at Driveline Baseball in Seattle. The innovations diffused and here we are. Now tradition. Major League pitchers have a long tradition of using substances to help them pitch better. A much to young heymijo watched the 1989 movie Major League and was introduced to Eddie Harris, the crafty veteran pitcher. A scene from the movie: < "What’s that shit on your chest?" "Crisco. Bardol. Vagisil. Any one of them will give you another two to three inches drop on your curveball." > Of course, if the umps are watching me close, I just put a little jalapeño inside my nose and get it running, and if I need to load the ball up a little, just wipe my nose. Pitchers have been putting stuff on the ball for ages. It has been loosely enforced if at all up until now. Some substances are even legal, like the rosin bag. So technology + tradition combined and we reached an inflection point. Oh yeah, there's a new substance that came out called Spider-tack, which is taking sticky to the next level. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statcast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statcast

thebigman433 5y ago

> Why such a big issue now all of a sudden Part of the issue is that the league wide batting average is at a historical low, and almost every game is turning into a pitching duel to see who gives up the least amount of home runs. This leads to some incredibly dull games, which isnt what the MLB wants.