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There are quite a few difficulties with this vision: 1) Aren't Jews entitled to self determination? That was the whole point of Zionism which the U.N eventually

There are quite a few difficulties with this vision: 1) Aren't Jews entitled to self determination? That was the whole point of Zionism which the U.N eventually supported. 2) The only example of a binational state we have in the middle east (Lebanon) suffered many civil wars and horrible atrocities between Christians and Muslims. The animosity between Palestinian (Muslims) and Israeli Jews is older and stronger. Would you consider moving 300 million Chinese to the U.S to make one big happy democracy? 3) The problems we have now can look tiny compared to some Islamist fundamentalist regime over the whole area (something like Hamas, which is the body most Palestinians prefer). Where is this expectation of democracy coming from? It's an extreme rarity in the middle east: "Israel is the only democratic country (qualified as a "flawed democracy", ranked #28 worldwide) in the Middle East, while Tunisia (#53 worldwide) is the only democracy (also "flawed democracy") in North Africa." But yeah, the current mess makes any change welcome I guess, even if it's destructive.

YZF 5y ago
There are 2 million non-Jewish Israeli citizens right now and it seems to work. Why can't it work with 5-6 million? Yes. The idea that the combined country still be the homeland of the Jewish people needs to be recognized as should the historic rights of the Jews in that region. The rights of the people who have lived there in more recent history can also be recognized. These should not be mutually exclusive. There are plenty of reasons why the rest of the region is messed up I'm not sure I want to look at that as evidence this can't work. There were plenty of periods in recent history where most Palestinians and Jews got along just fine. I don't think the animosity runs as deep as you're portraying. Sure, a lot of blood has been spilled since which doesn't help but there's plenty historical examples (lessay in Europe) where people have moved on. This is a multi-decade process. It's not something that will happen from today to tomorrow.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  There are 5 million Chinese citizens in the U.S, why cant it work with 200 million more? 5 million more Palestinians is exactly the difference between being a majoriry and controlling your future to being a minority. There are not so many examples of this working out. Jews lived in relative peace in Palestine when they were a tiny Arab speaking minority, now they are seen as a colonialist entity. Jews were almost entirely cleansed from all Arab countries to the point we have today only a few thousands left (they used to number a million). Even in European cities in 2021 there are big question marks on whether Jews and Muslims can live together. The animosity now became religious as well so its unclear if it wll stop if Zionism stops. And again, where is the expectation of democracy coming from? The state you are proposing is as likely to become democratic as China or Egypt.
  - YZF 5y ago
    Late reply ;) 1. There would still be a Jewish majority given those numbers. 2. A democracy can have a constitution that can't be changed by a simple majority. 3. A minority can have a huge sway in a democracy, e.g. the small parties that form the balance in forming a coalition in Israel today. 4. The Jews and non-jews in Israel aren't exactly the homogeneous entities they are perceived to be. There's plenty of Jews and non-Jews/Palestinians who are closer in their cultural, political and even religious views than in between some Jews and some non-Jews. 5. The US could totally work with 200 million more Chinese. If I was a US citizen of Chinese origin I'd probably take this question as pretty offensive. Anyhow, the precise formula, whether it's one "state" or a federation, or something along those lines can be figured out over time. The degree to which these populations are intertwined right now and the ongoing costs of the current situation are going to force this to happen. It's really the Israeli right that has been pushing in this direction all along, since in their book none of the land can be given up and obviously the Palestinians aren't gonna just move somewhere else.

YZF 5y ago

There are 2 million non-Jewish Israeli citizens right now and it seems to work. Why can't it work with 5-6 million? Yes. The idea that the combined country still be the homeland of the Jewish people needs to be recognized as should the historic rights of the Jews in that region. The rights of the people who have lived there in more recent history can also be recognized. These should not be mutually exclusive. There are plenty of reasons why the rest of the region is messed up I'm not sure I want to look at that as evidence this can't work. There were plenty of periods in recent history where most Palestinians and Jews got along just fine. I don't think the animosity runs as deep as you're portraying. Sure, a lot of blood has been spilled since which doesn't help but there's plenty historical examples (lessay in Europe) where people have moved on. This is a multi-decade process. It's not something that will happen from today to tomorrow.

joelbluminator 5y ago
There are 5 million Chinese citizens in the U.S, why cant it work with 200 million more? 5 million more Palestinians is exactly the difference between being a majoriry and controlling your future to being a minority. There are not so many examples of this working out. Jews lived in relative peace in Palestine when they were a tiny Arab speaking minority, now they are seen as a colonialist entity. Jews were almost entirely cleansed from all Arab countries to the point we have today only a few thousands left (they used to number a million). Even in European cities in 2021 there are big question marks on whether Jews and Muslims can live together. The animosity now became religious as well so its unclear if it wll stop if Zionism stops. And again, where is the expectation of democracy coming from? The state you are proposing is as likely to become democratic as China or Egypt.
- YZF 5y ago
  Late reply ;) 1. There would still be a Jewish majority given those numbers. 2. A democracy can have a constitution that can't be changed by a simple majority. 3. A minority can have a huge sway in a democracy, e.g. the small parties that form the balance in forming a coalition in Israel today. 4. The Jews and non-jews in Israel aren't exactly the homogeneous entities they are perceived to be. There's plenty of Jews and non-Jews/Palestinians who are closer in their cultural, political and even religious views than in between some Jews and some non-Jews. 5. The US could totally work with 200 million more Chinese. If I was a US citizen of Chinese origin I'd probably take this question as pretty offensive. Anyhow, the precise formula, whether it's one "state" or a federation, or something along those lines can be figured out over time. The degree to which these populations are intertwined right now and the ongoing costs of the current situation are going to force this to happen. It's really the Israeli right that has been pushing in this direction all along, since in their book none of the land can be given up and obviously the Palestinians aren't gonna just move somewhere else.