6 ms·

> Cryptocurrencies must be stopped, there is absolutely NO benefit to having them. I don't think that they're perfect, or that they're good for everything, but

> Cryptocurrencies must be stopped, there is absolutely NO benefit to having them. I don't think that they're perfect, or that they're good for everything, but your statement is hyperbolic.

kgraves 5y ago
Well there isn't, and I mean it. They do way more harm than good. There isn't anything wrong with using existing secure and regulated methods (Paypal, Bank Transfer, etc), Cryptocurrencies claim to be decentralised when underneath they ARE still centralised and manipulated, especially Bitcoin. I will only admit it has been a good run, but now it is time to for the regulators to step in.
- noidesto 5y ago
  What about the unbanked? People in high-interest countries? Cross-border payments? You present a strong claim that they "ARE still centralized and manipulated, especially Bitcoin". Please present concrete evidence.
  - kgraves 5y ago
    You have Transferwise and Western Union for this, the latter being there for over 100 years and still in use. Before you argue about WU fees, Bitcoin's fees are no better than Western Union's, hence Transferwise. > You present a strong claim that they "ARE still centralized and manipulated, especially Bitcoin". Please present concrete evidence. Princeton University concluded in a study that the bitcoin network is 50% controlled by 5 of the 6 bitcoin mining companies [0] [1] so how is Bitcoin decentralised If it is becoming more centralised by mining organisations and if most of the hashing power is centralised in China? That seems to be that means that Bitcoin isn't really decentralised then no? [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-31/bitcoin-s-network-operations-are-controlled-by-five-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-31/bitcoin-s... [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.02466.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.02466.pdf
    - noidesto 5y ago
      I’d say 50% is far less then the single-entity in a centralized solution. > Before you argue about WU fees, Bitcoin's fees are no better than Western Union's, hence Transferwise. Early in a new technologies adoption there will be pain points. I consider we are still very early on. Work is actively being done to alleviate this. Still waiting on your response for high-interest countries and the unbanked. [0] https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-taproot-upgrade-dogecoin-technology https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-taproot-upgrade-dogecoin-te...
      - kgraves 5y ago
        > I’d say 50% is far less then the single-entity in a centralized solution. So even with concrete evidence, you still cannot even admit this fact that Bitcoin is currently centralised? Maybe you should read about the 51% attack [0] and then come back to me and say with a straight face about Bitcoin being decentralised. You mean the 'unbanked' can use digital wallets like M-Pesa and Paytm? What's wrong with that? [0] https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-is-a-51-percent-attack https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-is-a-51-percent...
        noidesto 5y ago
        5 of 6 mining companies own 50%. Id be much more concerned if it was a single mining company owning 50%. I think you are the one unable to admit it isn’t centralized. By definition it isn’t centralized. Even in the current state.
    - baby 5y ago
      Why are you talking about bitcoin specifically? It’s the least advanced crypto
- dkersten 5y ago
  > Well there isn't, and I mean it. They do way more harm than good. Tell that to the Venezeulans who used bitcoin because their local currency is suffering from severe hyperinflation. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47553048 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47553048 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/venezuela-bitcoin-story-puts-category-204249079.html?guccounter=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/venezuela-bitcoin-story-puts-... I've personally used bitcoin to send money between my brother and myself (he was in Australia at the time, I was in the EU) because it was both faster and cheaper than a bank transfer or western union.
  - kgraves 5y ago
    > I've personally used bitcoin to send money between my brother and myself (he was in Australia at the time, I was in the EU) because it was both faster and cheaper than a bank transfer or western union. You do realise Bitcoin is unable to scale with a large volume of transactions, grinding it to almost a complete halt. So even if Bitcoin reaches critical mass, your brother will be waiting a very very long time to receive their funds, all with extremely high fees. Questioning the use of Bitcoin would start and by then the BTC price would have gone down had a mass sell off occurred. Not hypothetical by the way, actually happened only months ago. [0] So how is this better than Paypal or Western Union? https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/massive-bitcoin-selling-spree-causes-cryptocurrency-traffic-jam https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/massive-bitcoin-selling-sp...
    - baby 5y ago
      Throughput in blockchain is solved. Just saying.
      - kgraves 5y ago
        Any evidence or sources for this statement for it to be completely solved? Or are you 'just saying this' because...?
        baby 5y ago
- solveit 5y ago
  > there is absolutely NO benefit to having them. Oh come on this is absolutely hyperbolic. > They do way more harm than good. Well that was quick. Can we start with the more nuanced position next time? Now we can analyse costs and benefits and perhaps learn something.

> Cryptocurrencies must be stopped, there is absolutely NO benefit to having them. I don't think that they're perfect, or that they're good for everything, but your statement is hyperbolic.

kgraves 5y ago

Well there isn't, and I mean it. They do way more harm than good. There isn't anything wrong with using existing secure and regulated methods (Paypal, Bank Transfer, etc), Cryptocurrencies claim to be decentralised when underneath they ARE still centralised and manipulated, especially Bitcoin. I will only admit it has been a good run, but now it is time to for the regulators to step in.

noidesto 5y ago
What about the unbanked? People in high-interest countries? Cross-border payments? You present a strong claim that they "ARE still centralized and manipulated, especially Bitcoin". Please present concrete evidence.
- kgraves 5y ago
  You have Transferwise and Western Union for this, the latter being there for over 100 years and still in use. Before you argue about WU fees, Bitcoin's fees are no better than Western Union's, hence Transferwise. > You present a strong claim that they "ARE still centralized and manipulated, especially Bitcoin". Please present concrete evidence. Princeton University concluded in a study that the bitcoin network is 50% controlled by 5 of the 6 bitcoin mining companies [0] [1] so how is Bitcoin decentralised If it is becoming more centralised by mining organisations and if most of the hashing power is centralised in China? That seems to be that means that Bitcoin isn't really decentralised then no? [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-31/bitcoin-s-network-operations-are-controlled-by-five-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-31/bitcoin-s... [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.02466.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.02466.pdf
  - noidesto 5y ago
    I’d say 50% is far less then the single-entity in a centralized solution. > Before you argue about WU fees, Bitcoin's fees are no better than Western Union's, hence Transferwise. Early in a new technologies adoption there will be pain points. I consider we are still very early on. Work is actively being done to alleviate this. Still waiting on your response for high-interest countries and the unbanked. [0] https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-taproot-upgrade-dogecoin-technology https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-taproot-upgrade-dogecoin-te...
    - kgraves 5y ago
      > I’d say 50% is far less then the single-entity in a centralized solution. So even with concrete evidence, you still cannot even admit this fact that Bitcoin is currently centralised? Maybe you should read about the 51% attack [0] and then come back to me and say with a straight face about Bitcoin being decentralised. You mean the 'unbanked' can use digital wallets like M-Pesa and Paytm? What's wrong with that? [0] https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-is-a-51-percent-attack https://academy.binance.com/en/articles/what-is-a-51-percent...
      - noidesto 5y ago
        5 of 6 mining companies own 50%. Id be much more concerned if it was a single mining company owning 50%. I think you are the one unable to admit it isn’t centralized. By definition it isn’t centralized. Even in the current state.
  - baby 5y ago
    Why are you talking about bitcoin specifically? It’s the least advanced crypto
dkersten 5y ago
> Well there isn't, and I mean it. They do way more harm than good. Tell that to the Venezeulans who used bitcoin because their local currency is suffering from severe hyperinflation. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47553048 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47553048 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/venezuela-bitcoin-story-puts-category-204249079.html?guccounter=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/venezuela-bitcoin-story-puts-... I've personally used bitcoin to send money between my brother and myself (he was in Australia at the time, I was in the EU) because it was both faster and cheaper than a bank transfer or western union.
- kgraves 5y ago
  > I've personally used bitcoin to send money between my brother and myself (he was in Australia at the time, I was in the EU) because it was both faster and cheaper than a bank transfer or western union. You do realise Bitcoin is unable to scale with a large volume of transactions, grinding it to almost a complete halt. So even if Bitcoin reaches critical mass, your brother will be waiting a very very long time to receive their funds, all with extremely high fees. Questioning the use of Bitcoin would start and by then the BTC price would have gone down had a mass sell off occurred. Not hypothetical by the way, actually happened only months ago. [0] So how is this better than Paypal or Western Union? https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/massive-bitcoin-selling-spree-causes-cryptocurrency-traffic-jam https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/massive-bitcoin-selling-sp...
  - baby 5y ago
    Throughput in blockchain is solved. Just saying.
    - kgraves 5y ago
      Any evidence or sources for this statement for it to be completely solved? Or are you 'just saying this' because...?
      - baby 5y ago
solveit 5y ago
> there is absolutely NO benefit to having them. Oh come on this is absolutely hyperbolic. > They do way more harm than good. Well that was quick. Can we start with the more nuanced position next time? Now we can analyse costs and benefits and perhaps learn something.