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It amazes me that this engineer appears to not know that Google+ Circles are already implemented in the core of Facebook as Friend Lists (though without a nice

It amazes me that this engineer appears to not know that Google+ Circles are already implemented in the core of Facebook as Friend Lists (though without a nice UI and pushed aside over time) and that Facebook Groups solve a completely different, unrelated problem.

nl 15y ago
That's not what he was saying. His point was that he was waiting for Facebook to make their pre-emptive response to Circles, and then FB released Groups. He knows full well is solves a different problem - that was the point of what he was saying. Not only does Groups not really do the same things as Circles/Lists at all, but Facebook appears to think that Lists don't work. Zuckerberg: Just take friends on a site, and cut them into subgroups. Sounds good in theory. But almost no one wants to make lists. We’ve been at this for a few years, and promoted heavily. Most we’ve gotten is 5% to make lists, and most don’t make more than one. http://www.insidefacebook.com/2010/10/06/live-blogging-facebooks-lockdown-products-launch/ http://www.insidefacebook.com/2010/10/06/live-blogging-faceb...
- spullara 15y ago
  Lists don't work and Groups are not a response to Google+ Cirlces.
  - nl 15y ago
    I think we (and the author) are agreeing? Lists (in Facebook) suck - they UI is hidden and terrible. Facebook Groups came out when the author expected Facebook to respond to the concepts behind Google+ Circles. It turned out that it wasn't a response to those concepts at all, and was something unrelated. (BTW, it's not me down voting you.)
    - spullara 15y ago
      Since the author doesn't mention Facebook Friend Lists, I can only presume that he doesn't know about them otherwise they should be top of mind when looking at Google+ Circles. He even talks about "copying circles" even though they are already in the product. I'm not sure why you think he knows anything about them? Did I miss something in his article?
      - nl 15y ago
        Somewhat self-referential, but this should clear this up: (me) nlothian @dhanji Can you settle an argument on HN? Do you know about Facebook Lists or not? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2749711 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2749711 @nlothian Yes, of course I do. Someone on there has already answered it: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2749651 http://twitter.com/#!/dhanji/status/90316893113696256 http://twitter.com/#!/dhanji/status/90316893113696256
      - jondoh 15y ago
        Yes! I use facebook much more than I otherwise would because of the Friend Lists feature. I assure you that the users to whom this feature is important have found it. I presume that Google somehow believes that the rest of you will suddenly be super impressed with this feature now it is brought to your attention.
- crazy2k 15y ago
  So, once Google+ gains popularity, guys at Facebook will realize Friends List is a cool feature, will make it more visible and then kill Google+?
  - code_duck 15y ago
    Perhaps some of those things might happen, but not necessarily all of them follow from the first.
samj 15y ago
Facebook lists provide (barely) adequate functionality for users with large and/or complex social networks to constrain sharing but, like Circles, they're a PITA to set up. Fiven most people don't need them it's no surprise they're buried in the UI, particularly given they constrain rather than encourage sharing.
- code_duck 15y ago
  To 'constrain sharing' is exactly the point. Maybe you don't want your co-workers, in-laws or not so close friends to see personal photos or posts? Myself, I participate in more than one professional and social group of people. Things I share or say to one group are irrelevant, confusing or just noise to people in the other group and vice versa. So, constraining sharing sounds fine.
jwatzman 15y ago
Indeed: http://www.circlehack.com/ http://www.circlehack.com/
re 15y ago
I don't have a Google+ account, and don't know if it solves this, but one of the failings of FB lists is that they only control what you share, not what others share about you--there's no way to set things up so that you can have your work friends, your school friends, and your close friends all tag photos of you, but only have those tags be visible by default to other people within the same circle.
Angostura 15y ago
Do you know anyone who knows how to use Friends lists?
- corncobpipe 15y ago
  Yes, I do and I teach all my friends.
- prostoalex 15y ago
  On new friend confirmations it's in your face, i.e. friend confirmation dialog has a dropdown of lists. Agree it's not obvious for existing friends.
- swaits 15y ago
  I use it on each and every Facebook post. Not sure how people live without it.
  - samlevine 15y ago
    The post everything to everyone on their friends list. ;)
    - swaits 15y ago
      Ahh right, the people I hid. :)

nl 15y ago

That's not what he was saying. His point was that he was waiting for Facebook to make their pre-emptive response to Circles, and then FB released Groups. He knows full well is solves a different problem - that was the point of what he was saying. Not only does Groups not really do the same things as Circles/Lists at all, but Facebook appears to think that Lists don't work. Zuckerberg: Just take friends on a site, and cut them into subgroups. Sounds good in theory. But almost no one wants to make lists. We’ve been at this for a few years, and promoted heavily. Most we’ve gotten is 5% to make lists, and most don’t make more than one. http://www.insidefacebook.com/2010/10/06/live-blogging-facebooks-lockdown-products-launch/ http://www.insidefacebook.com/2010/10/06/live-blogging-faceb...

spullara 15y ago
Lists don't work and Groups are not a response to Google+ Cirlces.
- nl 15y ago
  I think we (and the author) are agreeing? Lists (in Facebook) suck - they UI is hidden and terrible. Facebook Groups came out when the author expected Facebook to respond to the concepts behind Google+ Circles. It turned out that it wasn't a response to those concepts at all, and was something unrelated. (BTW, it's not me down voting you.)
  - spullara 15y ago
    Since the author doesn't mention Facebook Friend Lists, I can only presume that he doesn't know about them otherwise they should be top of mind when looking at Google+ Circles. He even talks about "copying circles" even though they are already in the product. I'm not sure why you think he knows anything about them? Did I miss something in his article?
    - nl 15y ago
      Somewhat self-referential, but this should clear this up: (me) nlothian @dhanji Can you settle an argument on HN? Do you know about Facebook Lists or not? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2749711 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2749711 @nlothian Yes, of course I do. Someone on there has already answered it: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2749651 http://twitter.com/#!/dhanji/status/90316893113696256 http://twitter.com/#!/dhanji/status/90316893113696256
    - jondoh 15y ago
      Yes! I use facebook much more than I otherwise would because of the Friend Lists feature. I assure you that the users to whom this feature is important have found it. I presume that Google somehow believes that the rest of you will suddenly be super impressed with this feature now it is brought to your attention.
crazy2k 15y ago
So, once Google+ gains popularity, guys at Facebook will realize Friends List is a cool feature, will make it more visible and then kill Google+?
- code_duck 15y ago
  Perhaps some of those things might happen, but not necessarily all of them follow from the first.

samj 15y ago

Facebook lists provide (barely) adequate functionality for users with large and/or complex social networks to constrain sharing but, like Circles, they're a PITA to set up. Fiven most people don't need them it's no surprise they're buried in the UI, particularly given they constrain rather than encourage sharing.

code_duck 15y ago
To 'constrain sharing' is exactly the point. Maybe you don't want your co-workers, in-laws or not so close friends to see personal photos or posts? Myself, I participate in more than one professional and social group of people. Things I share or say to one group are irrelevant, confusing or just noise to people in the other group and vice versa. So, constraining sharing sounds fine.

jwatzman 15y ago

Indeed: http://www.circlehack.com/ http://www.circlehack.com/

re 15y ago

I don't have a Google+ account, and don't know if it solves this, but one of the failings of FB lists is that they only control what you share, not what others share about you--there's no way to set things up so that you can have your work friends, your school friends, and your close friends all tag photos of you, but only have those tags be visible by default to other people within the same circle.

Angostura 15y ago

Do you know anyone who knows how to use Friends lists?

corncobpipe 15y ago
Yes, I do and I teach all my friends.
prostoalex 15y ago
On new friend confirmations it's in your face, i.e. friend confirmation dialog has a dropdown of lists. Agree it's not obvious for existing friends.
swaits 15y ago
I use it on each and every Facebook post. Not sure how people live without it.
- samlevine 15y ago
  The post everything to everyone on their friends list. ;)
  - swaits 15y ago
    Ahh right, the people I hid. :)