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Possible reasons for the ban: - IRCCloud publicly tweeting mean things about Freenode: https://twitter.com/irccloud/status/1397475744448663564 https://twitter.

Possible reasons for the ban: - IRCCloud publicly tweeting mean things about Freenode: https://twitter.com/irccloud/status/1397475744448663564 https://twitter.com/irccloud/status/1397475744448663564 - IRCCloud effectively “competing” with Freenode’s new bouncer service (bnc.freenode.net): https://freenode.net/#freenode-bouncer-stay-connected-on-irc-all-the-time https://freenode.net/#freenode-bouncer-stay-connected-on-irc..., also see this IRC exchange: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27494124 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27494124 The timing does suggest that Freenode put off banning IRCCloud until they had an alternative (their bouncer) in place. Obviously, a terrible move and one that should accelerate their implosion. Side note: amusing that their help page on IRCCloud (https://freenode.net/kb/answer/irccloud https://freenode.net/kb/answer/irccloud) is still up given their recent website purge.

smolder 5y ago
I don't think it's so clearly a terrible move. In some respects, IRCcloud is like a metastasized cancer, growing in user count and connecting to every ircd, then moving all that communications traffic through a central service. That's antithetical to the idea of self-hosted, private chat networks which irc allows for. Allowing irccloud makes me think "should have just used discord". Edit: Okay, on reflection, I was being harsh and... incurious, maybe hyperbolic. Being able to freely connect to a service with whatever client you want is important, maybe especially so for Freenode. I'm still concerned with IRCcloud's effect on the "ecosystem", if you will.
- lkramer 5y ago
  And here I was thinking the beauty of IRC was that it's an open platform people can connect to however they like.
  - smolder 5y ago
    That's part of it, and may be the most important thing for Freenode, but is the self-hosted and non-centralized part really lost on HN readers?
    - pmlnr 5y ago
      You do realize Freenode, Libera, etc, all the big networks, are not self hosted, and that all traffic goes through them, right?
      - smolder 5y ago
        "All traffic" only goes through them in aggregate, because they are separate. You're saying they're not "self-hosted" because... why? They are independently hosted, that's the same thing. So, I realize there are several big, but separate networks that are part of the makeup of the ircd space. IRCCloud is bigger and spreads across lots of them, including many of the small ones.
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        By your argument Facebook is self-hosted because they host it themselves.
        squiggleblaz 5y ago
        There's only one set of Facebook implementations. I think smoulder means "it's a documented protocol with competing client and server implementations" when they say "it's self hosted".
        smolder 5y ago
        There's only one Facebook. Other groups and individuals apart from Freenode host their own ircds, so I consider ircd to be in the category of self-hosted things, even if sometimes it is a large "self" like Freenode.
    - 867-5309 5y ago
      I detected a hint of sarcasm
  - spacemanmatt 5y ago
    You are correct. It's about choices, and the fact of irccloud not having the same choices a proprietary protocol/client vendor would have available to hurt users.
- deleted 5y ago
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- deleted 5y ago
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- elithrar 5y ago
  > That's antithetical to the idea of self-hosted, private chat networks which irc allows for. It seems odd to hold both the “we should use de-centralized (or less centralized) systems” and “users MUST use these systems and no others” at the same time. People find utility in IRCCloud - I know I did (when I used it) as it helped me keep up + provided a good mobile experience on top of that. IRCCloud existing doesn’t take away from those who wish to connect directly or use their own bouncers.
  - smolder 5y ago
    It does take away from users who want to directly join a private channel. As soon as a channel is joined by an irccloud user, that channel becomes transparent to irccloud, a big, opaque, centralized service who is a giant attack surface for broadly spying on irc servers.
    - alphabet9000 5y ago
      Unfortunately, the privacy model of an IRC private channel is only as private as the privacy precautions taken by members of the private channel. Someone could run a ZNC bouncer on their own server, and have it connect to Freenode. Then, they could connect to their own bouncer using the IRCCloud web client - effectively gaining access to Freenode via IRCCloud, and Freenode would never 'know' IRCCloud is 'listening' in on the channel.
      - smolder 5y ago
        That's a good point.
gerikson 5y ago
Freenode's BNC is free, it should have no problem competing with a paid service like IRCcloud.
- toxik 5y ago
  The value proposition of irccloud is that you only need that one client. Among other things. Seriously doubt people will see freebie’s bouncer service as an alternative at all.
benatkin 5y ago
From the freenode bouncer link: > freenode is the home of FOSS, so of course it's powered by open source. Not any more it ain't.
croes 5y ago
>IRCCloud publicly tweeting mean things about Freenode Mean things like telling the truth?

smolder 5y ago

I don't think it's so clearly a terrible move. In some respects, IRCcloud is like a metastasized cancer, growing in user count and connecting to every ircd, then moving all that communications traffic through a central service. That's antithetical to the idea of self-hosted, private chat networks which irc allows for. Allowing irccloud makes me think "should have just used discord". Edit: Okay, on reflection, I was being harsh and... incurious, maybe hyperbolic. Being able to freely connect to a service with whatever client you want is important, maybe especially so for Freenode. I'm still concerned with IRCcloud's effect on the "ecosystem", if you will.

lkramer 5y ago
And here I was thinking the beauty of IRC was that it's an open platform people can connect to however they like.
- smolder 5y ago
  That's part of it, and may be the most important thing for Freenode, but is the self-hosted and non-centralized part really lost on HN readers?
  - pmlnr 5y ago
    You do realize Freenode, Libera, etc, all the big networks, are not self hosted, and that all traffic goes through them, right?
    - smolder 5y ago
      "All traffic" only goes through them in aggregate, because they are separate. You're saying they're not "self-hosted" because... why? They are independently hosted, that's the same thing. So, I realize there are several big, but separate networks that are part of the makeup of the ircd space. IRCCloud is bigger and spreads across lots of them, including many of the small ones.
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        By your argument Facebook is self-hosted because they host it themselves.
        squiggleblaz 5y ago
        There's only one set of Facebook implementations. I think smoulder means "it's a documented protocol with competing client and server implementations" when they say "it's self hosted".
        smolder 5y ago
        There's only one Facebook. Other groups and individuals apart from Freenode host their own ircds, so I consider ircd to be in the category of self-hosted things, even if sometimes it is a large "self" like Freenode.
  - 867-5309 5y ago
    I detected a hint of sarcasm
- spacemanmatt 5y ago
  You are correct. It's about choices, and the fact of irccloud not having the same choices a proprietary protocol/client vendor would have available to hurt users.
deleted 5y ago
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deleted 5y ago
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elithrar 5y ago
> That's antithetical to the idea of self-hosted, private chat networks which irc allows for. It seems odd to hold both the “we should use de-centralized (or less centralized) systems” and “users MUST use these systems and no others” at the same time. People find utility in IRCCloud - I know I did (when I used it) as it helped me keep up + provided a good mobile experience on top of that. IRCCloud existing doesn’t take away from those who wish to connect directly or use their own bouncers.
- smolder 5y ago
  It does take away from users who want to directly join a private channel. As soon as a channel is joined by an irccloud user, that channel becomes transparent to irccloud, a big, opaque, centralized service who is a giant attack surface for broadly spying on irc servers.
  - alphabet9000 5y ago
    Unfortunately, the privacy model of an IRC private channel is only as private as the privacy precautions taken by members of the private channel. Someone could run a ZNC bouncer on their own server, and have it connect to Freenode. Then, they could connect to their own bouncer using the IRCCloud web client - effectively gaining access to Freenode via IRCCloud, and Freenode would never 'know' IRCCloud is 'listening' in on the channel.
    - smolder 5y ago
      That's a good point.

gerikson 5y ago

Freenode's BNC is free, it should have no problem competing with a paid service like IRCcloud.

toxik 5y ago
The value proposition of irccloud is that you only need that one client. Among other things. Seriously doubt people will see freebie’s bouncer service as an alternative at all.

benatkin 5y ago

From the freenode bouncer link: > freenode is the home of FOSS, so of course it's powered by open source. Not any more it ain't.

croes 5y ago

>IRCCloud publicly tweeting mean things about Freenode Mean things like telling the truth?